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That was a good direct. Lots of good things coming to smash. Just a bit sad we don’t get a downloadable demo

Meh...

No Campaign/Adventure mode... yet... There is still the secret mode.

Sad to see Shovel Knight being an assist trophy, he be cool as a fighter. Same goes for Bomberman and Waluigi. I shouldn't get my hopes up for Banjo-Kazooie...

Some nice additions for sure, such as Stage Morphing and the expanded rule set. Being able to disable hazards for a stage is nice too, should I need it... Finally some more love for Stamina matches. And not to mention the insane amount of stages and song tracks. Classic mode is back of course, but it doesn't look that much different?

The most awesome new character during this announcement would be King K. Rool of course.

Sigh... I rather had Nintendo announce all they had today... I mean, come on, how many exclusive Nintendo Directs does Smash need... December is coming fast, and I am a bit disapointed by the lack of progress by Nintendo this year. Last year was awesome for Nintendo thanks to Super Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild. 2018 seems to have focused most on Wii U ports. Well... That could change with Smash and the Pokémon Let's Go (through I hate anything motion related, just give me a traditional controller. Pokémon is still awesome through).

Hopefully 2019 will have a busier release schedule for Nintendo.

I am still not sure if Smash Ultimate is a brand new game in my book. I would still call it an enhanced port and not just a port. Nintendo can call it a new game, but that still does not change my mind. It still includes mostly the same assets, art style, stages from previous games (even if completely updated in HD), roster and what not else. Including more stages, unique characters, a new menu and a different engine does not guarantee a new game for me. Games got remastered in newer engines all the time... It still remains the same game. It all comes down to the experience to be had with a game. Majora's Mask for example shared the same engine as with Ocarina of Time... But I consider it a new game since it delivers a completely new experience.

I am not trying to step on anyone's toes here by saying it is an enhanced port. In fact, an enhanced port is actually a great thing. Normally a port would just be the easiest way to get one game from one platform to another. An enhanced port goes much farther by improving and iterating on the game and it's experience. It still remains the same experience, although vastly improved and thus to be the superior and ultimate edition to be had.

It has no issue to argue with me... You should know I only want the best of out games... I am always critical. Perhaps with the addition of a campaign/adventure mode... hehe... But that really leaves me to wonder, anyone who shares my thoughts here?

[color=#000080]Each Smash game has also his own physics. Some preferred Melee to Brawl or Smash 4 for instance. Some friends actually played the demo at Japan Expo in France, apparently it is totally different. Like a bit heavier, but people also fly farther away... I could not explain it perfectly myself though...

You can say that also for the other Smash games, starting from Brawl. It was not much more than an "enhancement" with some more compared to the previous. What I really like about this one, is that this time, they kept everything from the previous ones. So hopefully, as the name would suggest, it will be the one that everyone will prefer. It was always a pain with my friend to choose which one to play, because everyone had is own preference.[/color]
[color=#000080]Even if it's not that much addition in terms of character or stages, the new modes or those that come back still satisfy me, as it makes a very huge game in term of content, even if it comes from previous games. But Smash Bros is about bringing already existing materials from various franchises into one unique game, isn't it?
[/color]

[color=#000080]However I DO really hope an good and big adventure mode as well, should it be that mysterious "green mode", hidden in a very ugly way just to tease you for another direct...[/color]

@Admentus I don't know what to say here to convince you it's a "new game" except that from what we know right now, Ultimate already brings more things to Smash than the Brawl to WiiU jump.
Apart from WiiU stages, not that much assets are reused. The way to setting up a match have been completely redesigned from scratch, and a lot of new options are available. The gameplay is really different, there's a bench of good videos analyses on that topic.
When Melee enhanced gameplay over 64 and Brawl enhanced contents over Melee, Ultimate do both at the same time over WiiU.

Anyway, it was a good direct. I totally want to try Richter (and Simon).
I love how Nintendo "kills" potentially newcomers by bringing them as assist trophies. I guess you can't make everybody happy when you make a crossover game. *sob sob* Ashley...

(08-09-2018, 03:32 AM)DrHouse64 Wrote: [ -> ]@Admentus I don't know what to say here to convince you it's a "new game" except that from what we know right now, Ultimate already brings more things to Smash than the Brawl to WiiU jump.
Apart from WiiU stages, not that much assets are reused. The way to setting up a match have been completely redesigned from scratch, and a lot of new options are available. The gameplay is really different, there's a bench of good videos analyses on that topic.
When Melee enhanced gameplay over 64 and Brawl enhanced contents over Melee, Ultimate do both at the same time over WiiU.

Anyway, it was a good direct. I totally want to try Richter (and Simon).
I love how Nintendo "kills" potentially newcomers by bringing them as assist trophies. I guess you can't make everybody happy when you make a crossover game. *sob sob* Ashley...

Yeah... Hehe, I told you so, I don't change my mind that easily. I am still not convinced. I got the impression that Nintendo was reading patch notes for half a hour instead of presenting something new these last two Nintendo Directs...

Okay, if you're saying that this is not "enough" for you to consider this a new game, what would it take for you to consider a Smash game to be "new"?

For it be a new experience. And not an improved version of the experience I had in the previous game. It might be unfair, but that's the nature of fighting games I suppose. There is only so much you can change within the bounds of it's genre, which could limit it's potential from evolving into something newer and better. I still find myself surprised how the developers manages to add new features such as stage morphing. But I wonder, how much can be done more? It's not like the genre is capable of a sudden shift similar to that happened with the Zelda series with Breath of the Wild (which turned out for the better in this case). I guess the same applies for Mario Kart too, how could this series evolve in the future? Mario Kart 7 and 8 had awesome additions such as underwater, flying and anti-gravity, but what can be next? Releasing Mario Kart 9 with only completely new tracks without any new features would not be a new game, but rather an extension of Mario Kart 8. For a while I feared the same might happen for Super Mario Galaxy 2 which was known as Super Mario Galaxy 1.5 for a while. The first Galaxy game was legendary, so I really hoped the sequel could go beyond and improve itself (spoiler, which it did).

For me, additions such as a boss rush, adventure mode, complete co-op, stamina matches with multiple lives, unlocking content, perhaps a level and gear system that motivates players to "grind" a bit in order to take on higher forms of challenges (which still felt lacking in Smash 4) could go a long way into providing a new experience, which will therefore qualify as a new game. Perhaps the secret mode being teased? Stage morphing certainly works towards that goal.

Only way to be sure is to buy the game and see it for myself. Maybe I was wrong all this time.

On a side note, I wasn't that much of a fan of the Classic Mode in Smash 4. The Classic Mode in the previous games were better. At least Smash 4 had it's Classic Mode in co-op. And I might sound stupid here, but I kinda liked to unlock content in the Smash games. Smash 4 felt just a bit boring with no goals to work towards since pretty much everything was unlocked from the start. Brawl that did great with so much to unlock to work for, even with a friend.

I never said I was a great player, and I probably never will be. But for me, what matters is fun and the experience to be had. I still love the Smash games, even while I completely suck in playing them.

Yeah... My expectations are basically way too high... As always... That's is also exactly why I never bother myself with games such as Call of Duty... It is just practically the same game year in year out as far as I am aware of (the first two games were great by the way when it tried to stay true to our history).

But as I said, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, and I respect everyone's decision if they feel like Super Smash Bros. Ultimate is a brand new game. I am just wondering, how many share my thoughts here. Thus why I started this discussion.

(08-09-2018, 04:29 PM)Admentus Wrote: [ -> ] stamina matches with multiple lives

They are doing that

(08-10-2018, 06:25 AM)ExtremeDude2 Wrote: [ -> ]They are doing that

Yeah I know, thus a step towards a newer experience . Just one of many examples on how to improve. Even the boss rush mode seems to be teased (at least bosses are). I do fear most of the content is available from the get-go. As I said, having goals to work towards is nice.

Yeah... I am dragging out this discussion way toooooo long perhaps... I feel bad for doing so.

Admentus Wrote:For it be a new experience. And not an improved version of the experience I had in the previous game.

But... all Smash games are improved versions of the same experience.

If you boil it down to raw game mechanics, Melee was the last "new game" in the series, since it was the last time new mechanics were added to the base gameplay (side specials, air dodging, and charging smashes). Every game since has just been tweaking and adjusting Melee's mechanics! Of course those changes can result is a very very different game at the professional level of play, but casual play is basically identical. But still, the majority of the mechanics remained the same going from Smash 1 to Melee.

But if we go by pure "experience", of a player picking up the game and what it's like to play, then well, all Smash Bros. games are just the same game! The experience of playing Smash has changed very, very little. They are all multiplayer fighting games with the same control scheme and perspective and game mechanics. They have done very little to change the experience of playing Smash; they have only added or removed alternate game modes, refined the core mechanics, balanced characters, and added/removed characters and stages and items. Which is great, Smash 1 was a balance nightmare with almost no content! Smash REALLY needed these refinements! But none of those change the experience of playing Smash, so all Smash titles give the same fundamental experience (excluding professional play, that's different). If you want a truly different experience, you need to go to a truly different game, like Street Fighter.

So this is why I have no problem with Ultimate being iterative. Because they are all iterative! But since Smash is a game I really like, I'm totally fine with more content and refined gameplay on top of the game I already like!