Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

Lmao

(08-04-2019, 05:31 PM)Misaka Mikoto Wrote: [ -> ]I am curious about one thing, while we’re on the subject—what would be the reason for a Windows 7 user to insist on using the D3D11 backend? Like why would a Win7 user want to choose it over OpenGL? Are there certain games that misbehave under OpenGL and Vulkan but work better under D3D11?

AMD's Windows drivers are slower with OpenGL than Direct3D 11. Also, async ubershaders will have some stuttering if you're using an Nvidia GPU with OpenGL. But maybe Vulkan can avoid these problems as well, I don't really remember...

I'm not aware of any specific games that have compatibility problems with OpenGL but not other backends.

Great progress report as always!

(08-04-2019, 07:20 PM)Misaka Mikoto Wrote: [ -> ]Actually the advent of official Microsoft EOL for Windows 7 won’t affect me in any appreciable way. I don’t rely on Microsoft support for anything, including ongoing updates. When Microsoft stops releasing patches and security updates for Windows 7, then I simply won’t have any more to install; but I don’t rely on those anyway. I don’t rely on active antivirus, either (just occasional scans with MBAM)—I’m simply careful on the Internet. Now, I am aware that simply being careful isn’t guaranteed protection, but since I maintain offline backups of everything, I don’t really have any security concerns related to EOL for Windows 7.

My only concerns have been those of hardware compatibility (which, yes, is related to Microsoft’s announcement of EOL for Windows 7), but thus far that has not been an issue even when on a current-gen motherboard and processor. Windows 7 installs and runs fine on current-gen hardware using an NVMe-slipstreamed Windows 7 ISO, a USB 3.0 PCIe expansion card, and (during installation only) a PS/2 keyboard and a SATA optical drive.

As a result, I don’t anticipate having difficulties running Windows 7 for the foreseeable future. Sure, I can’t use all the features of, say, DirectX 12 or play Win10-only games; but my gaming habits don’t intersect with either of those anyway.

(I actually thought Windows 7 EOL had already come and gone; I’m surprised to hear it’s still 6 months out.)

Unless your Win 7 machine is not connected to the internet it WILL affect you sooner or later. Even ignoring the security aspect: all major browser will soon drop support for Win 7, so you'll be stuck with the obsolete version wich would be less and less supported with each month/year. Even ignoring the the web browsing (you'll likely be still fine with 95% of the web sites other the years), with the growing number of Electron/chromium based apps it'll mean they'll drop Win 7 support to.

(08-05-2019, 12:03 AM)flashmozzg Wrote: [ -> ]Unless your Win 7 machine is not connected to the internet it WILL affect you sooner or later. Even ignoring the security aspect: all major browser will soon drop support for Win 7, so you'll be stuck with the obsolete version wich would be less and less supported with each month/year. Even ignoring the the web browsing (you'll likely be still fine with 95% of the web sites other the years), with the growing number of Electron/chromium based apps it'll mean they'll drop Win 7 support to.

This is complete hearsay. Nobody is dropping Win 7 support anytime soon. Firefox LITERALLY just ended support for XP at the END of 2018 LMAO. Unless you have info to the contrary then please don't suggest it. There is still a gigantic Win 7 userbase. There are many people who frankly PREFER Win 7 over Win 10.

For instance, 20% of Steam users are still using Win 7, and that's for those that report it. There are probably a lot more that don't report it. That's a huge chunk of users including me.

It's pretty crappy to hear Dolphin will be dropping Win 7 any time soon. Not a good look if you ask me. While there may be a feature or two that won't work on Win 7, there is absolutely no reason to leave all those users in the dust.

Not a huge deal as most games have all the features that people want right now in Dolphin. I can hardly name any major issues I have any more really. But don't drop Win 7 for a bit yet please. Win 7 is still a great OS, and hardly anybody cares about half the games you guys are making progress on. Dropping Win 7 so you can better some niche Japanese game that one guy plays on weekends is pretty fucking ridiculous all told, and I think most people would agree with that.

(08-05-2019, 01:29 AM)Khronikos Wrote: [ -> ]It's pretty crappy to hear Dolphin will be dropping Win 7 any time soon. Not a good look if you ask me. While there may be a feature or two that won't work on Win 7, there is absolutely no reason to leave all those users in the dust.

We'll only completely drop Windows 7 if the problems go beyond one or two optional features. We haven't decided that we are going to drop Windows 7 soon, we've said that we could drop support for it if it becomes too much of a burden to support, and if you're lucky, that might not be the case for a while.

(08-05-2019, 01:39 AM)JosJuice Wrote: [ -> ]We'll only completely drop Windows 7 if the problems go beyond one or two optional features. We haven't decided that we are going to drop Windows 7 soon, we've said that we could drop support for it if it becomes too much of a burden to support, and if you're lucky, that might not be the case for a while.

Okay, well that sounds reasonable. I can't really think of too many issues I have since you guys have Dolphin in such an amazing state at this point. I'd be happy as is, but hopefully you can get another year or two out of it.

(08-05-2019, 01:29 AM)Khronikos Wrote: [ -> ]Dropping Win 7 so you can better some niche Japanese game that one guy plays on weekends is pretty fucking ridiculous all told, and I think most people would agree with that.

It isn't a matter of just being able to emulate some nice Japanse game. It's an implementation method, likely to affect many more games. If Windows 7 is having trouble to properly implement features, it should be dropped. Windows 7 should not hold back other platforms in that case.

Taking a look back at DirectX 9, it was dropped because it prevented backends such as OpenGL or Direct3D 11 from advancing further. In which case I gladly agreed it was dropped. Even while DirectX 9 could have been used by a lot of users, it shouldn't hold back the other video backends. The same goes for 32-bit build support as well. Why bother supporting them if it prevents the 64-bit builds from improving.

Sometimes, you simply can't proceed further without dropping support. I am fairly sure that the dev team has no intention of dropping Windows 7 support as long it doesn't prevent the other platforms (Linux, Windows 8/10, Mac, Android) from fully functioning. Like it or not, but all systems will be deprecated at some point, even Windows 10. But perhaps it could take many years before Windows 7 in fact does prove to be an obstacle for emulation improvement.

Ideally an emulator should be developed to exactly mimic the original hardware. I suppose the devs wouldn't really care about the Japanse racing game itself, but rather the approaches it takes to hardware emulation. Having this specific feature being supported for this title now means it is supported for every title. Or at least, I hope so. Unexpected things can always happen with code development.

From Dolphin stand point we have been basically running Windows 7 in EOL mode for the last 2 years until yesterday without a proper LogicOps workaround, some people just want to see Windows 7 dead for a long time already which is strange since Win10 sucks so much (except for 2 or 3 shoehorned features), it's basically planned obsolescence.

(08-05-2019, 02:27 AM)eckso Wrote: [ -> ]From Dolphin stand point we have been basically running Windows 7 in EOL mode for the last 2 years until yesterday without a proper LogicOps workaround, some people just want to see Windows 7 dead for a long time already which is strange since Win10 sucks so much (except for 2 or 3 shoehorned features), it's basically planned obsolescence.

Don't get me wrong. I loved Windows 7 and I certainly do not wish for it's death. It's just that software development shouldn't be held back by deprecated systems. As long that isn't the case, Windows 7 can remain where it is.