Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

(07-12-2015, 05:59 AM)Kurausukun Wrote: [ -> ]Does an issue clearly exist? Since not even TVs seems to be able of producing consistent results, should we really be trying to make Dolphin display things the way they "should" be displayed? Or maybe I'm missing something.

I am not an expert but I've played Melee across many CRTs and up scalers and Dolphin has always looked a little weird to me.

The graphical distortion from there being no attempt whatsoever to account for the pixel aspect ratio the games were designed to be played at is very apparent. The problem most certainly exists, and even if an indisputably perfect solution may not, that doesn't mean that we should just leave it in its current state. We could dispute small differences in how we think analog signals should be displayed forever, but the truth is that we could fix 99% of the problem very easily, and fiddle with small differences in numbers later.

Seems like a big issue. Games displaying correctly. All the speedups and HD texture packs don't mean much if circles are ovals.

Hello mirrorbender, I'm 100% with you on this and I'm actually surprised this issue dragged as far as GC/Wii. I made a similar thread for correct aspect ratio on the more retro systems, but many people didn't tick either, it seems easy to explain that playing with 4x more resolution is a plus, while it's hard for them to understand that playing with stretched graphics actually can demean your experience as physics will not follow as expected.

I support a PAR ratio option that you can then input for each game's .ini (for example just as you have to for stereo convergence and depth). If the video-to-display scaling is done at Dolphin level the PAR adjustment can be done at the same step avoiding further image degradation. If not I support a scaling option to choose different kernels like spline36 or lanczos to conform to 1080p for example, either by downscaling (if you chose a higher IR) or upscaling.

If this is done I can go through the 85 (my collection) most famous GC/Wii games to create a list of AR. I just still have my doubts on how this should be done. It could be a more straight forward approach as described by mirrorbender. As far as it looks the only variable is the game's resolution (different for each one), so if we know the internal game resolution (looks like an option for it was requested already ) we can know what was the intended output. Then, we should learn if this is correct for all games and proceed (I'm optimistic), or rethink the process.

The (mathematically) proper aspect ratio can be very easily calculated given the rendered resolution and horizontal scaling factor for each game. There is no need to manually go through and figure out each game. The correct aspect ratio can simply be figured out with the formula: ((SAR) * (Scaling factor) * Width) / Height. That is very simple math that dolphin should be able to do dynamically for every game as it runs. Dolphin already has the capability to force aspect ratios, there just needs to be another option to force the correct one, rather than just 4:3/16:9. There are a few other interactions that would need to be worked out (like applying the math to get proper geometry with widescreen) but generally, what needs to be done is really very simple. The hard part seems to be agreeing on what the best NTSC/PAL sample aspect ratios actually are.

It really seems like what you need is someone who knows how to make a new commit of Dolphin who sees things your way.

I guess I was a bit slow yesterday since I was about to sleep. If the active frame doesn't change from game to game (710.85x486 for NTSC) then we shouldn't calculate anything, all games will be stretched a ratio of (710.85/486) / (4/3) = 1,463 / 1,333 = 1,09699 = the opposite of 4320/4739.

All is left is a matter of "where to crop" to avoid vertical blanking, and properly centering the 4:3 frame (here is where one needs the original native resolution, I think this is obtainable with the software backend).

My doubts come from the fact that I was checking Mario Kart Wii yesterday, and it was a bit too tall. So for Wii the process must be different. I'm all for freedom so I prefer a setting where you can define the pixel aspect ratio, this is future proof so we don't need to go around developers to change this or that to certain games (same out-of-standard games are surely prone to arise).

Something also must be said about PAL games before commiting the fix. Now I have a problem because I won't be able to play GC/Wii games without thinking all is wrong/stretched  lol
I'm going to be testing the next days so we can come up with a method (I'm focused on Wii thought).

I think mario kart wii (like many other wii and some GC games) is scaled horizontally by the VI before it is output, so that has to be factored in as well as NTSC SAR. I know Twilight Princess is an example of a GC game that does this. It's rendered at 608 pixels wide, but then scaled to 666 pixels wide (don't quote me on the numbers), so its width should be scaled by (4320/4739) * (666/608). I presume something similar happens with MKWii. This is still easy math, it just requires getting/keeping track of the contents of the VI scaling register

I observed one track in MKWii (toad's factory) where the assets are indeed vertical stretched, other tracks and menus look fine... I took a software screenshot and for example it has a resolution (PAL) of 608x456, this is the wiimote warning screen, there's a red circle and indeed plain converting the screenshot to 16:9 just like what Dolphin does (by multiplying width) we get a perfect circle, when we do the same with Ivy the Kiwi game (IR of 640x448) we don't get a perfect circle but still the game content looks geometry correct.

So maybe this is only an issue of GameCube? at least when playing Wii on 16:9, Wii as 4:3 (as depicted in your images) could work as wrong as the GC but I don't know, the same problem can be seen on ported games from GC (Okami), it plays wrong even in 16:9, I had to multiply the 16:9 screenshot (not software this time) by 4320/4739 to show correct in game geometry.

I'm really not content letting this die but I don't know what else to say.