...and boy could Project 64 and probably mupen 64 learn a few things from you guys.
http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/best...rs/#!6IOEX
I actually have to wonder if the best emulator for N64 is actually Dolphin via Virtual ware titles for the Wii. you'd think after all these years and the recent work on N64 that N64 emulation would be further along and be multi platform. Don't get me wrong it's no easy task. Any ways suffice to say some games didn't work very well and or lagged.
Any ways it gave me yet even more appreciation for Dolphin. The dev team is doing amazing work and i looked forward to the progress reports.
Some Virtual Console N64 games run really well, Mario Tennis is emulated better on Dolphin than any popular N64 emulator I've tried. Majora's Mask doesn't boot yet (except in PAL, and honestly, that's worse than not booting if you actually try it.)
Other games work great, Super Mario 64 is amazing in Dolphin, even has the trademark VC lag in it.
cdoublejj Wrote:you'd think after all these years and the recent work on N64 that N64 emulation would be further along and be multi platform.
I can see how those who aren't programmers or familiar with the deep down-and-dirty workings of emulation could make that assumption. The fact is, however, that in comparison to the Wii, the N64 emu-scene has historically had both a lot less effort gone into reverse engineering things completely ("just HLE it" they said :p), a lot less effort in overall development (seriously Dolphin probably has more commits and hours dedicated than any other console emulator I know of), and the documentation is notably sparser. So yeah, RE work, effort spent on a project, and documentation are all pretty big factors that determined why Wii emulation has seemingly outpaced N64 emulation.
The conditions were simply better for people to make an accurate Wii emulator before an accurate N64 emulator. When it comes to Dolphin's N64 emulation, Dolphin also has the advantage of not really giving a crap about what kinds of quirky things the N64 hardware had, or any little small undocumented features, or any of the other stumbling blocks that actual N64 emulators face. To Dolphin, the VCs are just another program containing PPC code that tell it what instructions to run, what graphics to draw with the Wii's GPU and when, and what sounds to process with the Wii's DSP and when. Nintendo already wrote the N64 emulation in the VC, all Dolphin has to do is be a good Wii and run Nintendo's code faithfully.
But I'm still waiting for Mario Tennis on Mupen64Plus to reach perfection. Mario Golf too.
(07-01-2014, 03:03 PM)Shonumi Wrote: [ -> ]cdoublejj Wrote:you'd think after all these years and the recent work on N64 that N64 emulation would be further along and be multi platform.
I can see how those who aren't programmers or familiar with the deep down-and-dirty workings of emulation could make that assumption. The fact is, however, that in comparison to the Wii, the N64 emu-scene has historically had both a lot less effort gone into reverse engineering things completely ("just HLE it" they said :p), a lot less effort in overall development (seriously Dolphin probably has more commits and hours dedicated than any other console emulator I know of), and the documentation is notably sparser. So yeah, RE work, effort spent on a project, and documentation are all pretty big factors that determined why Wii emulation has seemingly outpaced N64 emulation.
The conditions were simply better for people to make an accurate Wii emulator before an accurate N64 emulator. When it comes to Dolphin's N64 emulation, Dolphin also has the advantage of not really giving a crap about what kinds of quirky things the N64 hardware had, or any little small undocumented features, or any of the other stumbling blocks that actual N64 emulators face. To Dolphin, the VCs are just another program containing PPC code that tell it what instructions to run, what graphics to draw with the Wii's GPU and when, and what sounds to process with the Wii's DSP and when. Nintendo already wrote the N64 emulation in the VC, all Dolphin has to do is be a good Wii and run Nintendo's code faithfully.
But I'm still waiting for Mario Tennis on Mupen64Plus to reach perfection. Mario Golf too.
Yeah I supposed I could have worded that better. You'd think there would have also been more interest and or effort but, perhaps we still lack more information on how the N64 work or perhaps it works just good enough to keep every one happy.
It makes you wonder how they figure out how the console chips and operating system work in the first place to even start making and emulator. At the risk of starting a run away thread I sometimes wonder when and how the R700 GPU in the Wii U will get such attention/research. Obviously there is quite a lot of work to be done for the wii let alone the N64.... let alone and current gen console like the U.
I also wonder how emulating the wii would work on powerfully PPC computers like the last gen dual Qaud CORE PPC machines apple made and sold... obviously being closed platform the GPU options are limited to due to the drivers and PPC EFI but, i often wonder how much emulation could be tweaked/cut down and instead converted or something on the CPU side sine they are both PPC.... assuming they are the same kind of PPC... as i learned not to long ago there is more than 1 kind of PPC.
Wow no appreciation I tell you... Most emulators are written for fun or just to prove it can be done. I remember the n64 days, everyone struggling with the concepts on how to emulate the n64 and make it playable. From corn to 1964, then out of nowhere the HLE attempt. Basically saying, look guys, this is how you will have to do it. Remember, the systems we had then were not monsters like today's systems. I bought a crummy 366 celeron and pushed the bus from 66 to 100 and bam. I'm playing zelda on my computer at the same time my friends did on there n64 system. UltraHLE was one of the most pronominal moments in emulation history. But yes the most fundamental part of dolpinh is the power of numbers. Remember the dolinh 1.3 days? Back when it was a few man operation?
If you really want to see n64 emulation i'd watch the cycle-accurate CEN64 emulator. Its a bit optimistic but encouraging none the less.
Nintendo's VC N64 emulator runs on a Wii with a Single Core 729mhz CPU and runs all the games perfectly
so why does a N64 emulator need to be Cycle accurate with ultra high system requirements.
Wow, you really dont know much about how emulation works do you? If only it was that easy.
You would benefit from reading this.
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2011/08/ac...-emulator/
a small tid-bit, to get perfect snes emulation you need to feed the emulator near the same requirements as dolphin requires. Snes9x and zsnes are using tricks to make emulation possible. Just like most all emulators do... So yes we can make great n64 emulators for a x86 platform but when you "fake" it ( or 'guess it', if that term is better fit ) you will reach limits. Cycle redundant is just one step closer to the hardware. Some say a true transistor emulator aimed at Atari would be too much for a modern day system. Though really wii->n64 is hardly a comparison for windows(x86)->n64. Not to mention its Nintendo to Nintendo ?
Remember you have to emulate the environment, each chip, each part as close to the hardware as you can. This means technologies, protocols, and logic. Consoles dont have the same rig as a computer. So in many cases emulators just take the easy way out an try to mimic what the game wants to do but on a computer (hence HLE). There are consequences here.
(07-02-2014, 01:55 AM)Gir Wrote: [ -> ]Nintendo's VC N64 emulator runs on a Wii with a Single Core 729mhz CPU and runs all the games perfectly
so why does a N64 emulator need to be Cycle accurate with ultra high system requirements.
They have access to everything they need to know to make emulation work well.
The SNES and N64 are completely different architectures, older 16 bit system have more difficult timings then the 32 bit systems that have simpler caches/timings, more sense to target 60 FPS on Low-Mid range CPU's so more people can use the emulator.