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06-15-2017, 07:55 AM
(06-15-2017, 05:11 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: You've just described modern video games. *facepalm* Yes yes, ten year old zinger. It made a lot more sense in the Modern Warfare/MGS4 era, but MGS5 and most modern games are *very* active, and are moving further and further away from linear experiences (those that are still linear, like Call of Duty, are bleeding out). Open World and Roguelite are the "in" mechanics right now. There are lots of criticisms one can direct at these, but being linear is not one of them! AMD Threadripper Pro 5975WX PBO+200 | Asrock WRX80 Creator | NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 FE | 64GB DDR4-3600 Octo-Channel | Windows 11 23H1 | (details)
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06-15-2017, 04:14 PM
(06-15-2017, 09:22 AM)MayImilae Wrote: (those that are still linear, like Call of Duty, are bleeding out).Only on PC. On PS4 and Xbox One those are still the most played games.
Ack! Nitpicking! >_<
Yes Call of Duty is still played by a lot of people, but the original comment was about trends in game design. Let's examine them! For years, many many many games tried to clone Call of Duty. For a period between 2007 and 2013 or so, if you bought any first person shooter, it was a Call of Duty Modern Warfare clone. What do we have today? Doom, Prey, Quake Champions, Battlefield 1, Battlefront - these games are all looking back at older (and yes, less linear) game design and ignoring Call of Duty's formula. And yes, this trend toward linearity existed even outside of first person shooters. I mean, Final Fantasy 13. The game was literally a hallway. Uncharted is a neat example, since it got a loooot of clones mimicking it's particular style of linear narrative mechanics. But now most games are trying to be Witcher III these days. Horizon Zero Dawn, Breath of the Wild, Watch Dogs 2, Final Fantasy 15, MGS5, on and on and on; most AAA games today of any genre are open world or pull heavily from open world mechanics. There's also the rise of the Roguelite, but that is mostly kept to smaller studios, so I'll ignore it right now. What is triggering this exodus away from the super-linear narrative system that Call of Duty pioneered? Because demand for it is falling. Before, the demand was large enough to hold bunches of games of all kinds of genres, all competing with eachother with the same linear spectacle narrative concepts, all growing together. There's a lot of reasons for that, such as the power of the 360 and PS3 being decent at in game visuals but a *lot* better at linear spectacle, and the novelty of the amazing graphics they could push out in these linear sequences, among other things. But over time, players have gotten tired of linearity and spectacle, and the demand has shrank - so developers have moved on. Call of Duty was always in the lead in this category though, and as other devs have given up, it got to gobble up players from those other games and become THE owner of the super-linear "spectacle game" model. And yet its performance is declining every year (relative to the growth of the games industry as a whole). Even Activision has seen the signs of decline, and tried to change things up a bit with Advanced Warfare and Infinite Warfare, just to be bit by its own fanbase not liking it and other players not willing to try it because Call of Duty has been stale for so long! I've seen many franchises die, and when a franchise is in a hurt-if-you-don't-change and hurt-if-you-change position, they are toooaaast. The typical response a developer will have in this scenario is to go back to their roots, and the fanbase will be pleased and result in a brief sales uptick compared to the entries that changed things - yet the base keeps shrinking, and every game after that is all declines. And guess what Call of Duty is doing with Call of Duty WWII! We'll see how that goes for them~ Aaaanyway, all of this is just clarifying my original point! Linearity is falling out of favor, and open worlds are now the new favorite among AAA developers. Even among small devs, games are no longer trying to be Cave Story (retro linear narrative platformer) or Super Meat Boy (retro linear-paths super hard platformer), but are taking techniques defined in Rogue Legacy, the first Roguelite, and mixing them into other genres. A roguelite, no matter the genre, is by its very nature non-linear (to the point that every single playthrough is unique!). Now to bring this aaalll back around to the joke - saying all modern games are just animated movies is quite outdated. So... I'm right and you're wrong~! Naeh neah~ Spoiler: AMD Threadripper Pro 5975WX PBO+200 | Asrock WRX80 Creator | NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 FE | 64GB DDR4-3600 Octo-Channel | Windows 11 23H1 | (details)
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06-16-2017, 02:20 AM
Sir, the money printing machine is slowing down, lets turn it off completely and try this untested device that may or may not print money
06-16-2017, 04:32 AM
(This post was last modified: 06-16-2017, 04:35 AM by NaturalViolence.)
MayImilae Wrote:Yes yes, ten year old zinger. It made a lot more sense in the Modern Warfare/MGS4 era, but MGS5 and most modern games are *very* active, and are moving further and further away from linear experiences (those that are still linear, like Call of Duty, are bleeding out). Open World and Roguelite are the "in" mechanics right now. There are lots of criticisms one can direct at these, but being linear is not one of them! I disagree. Most of the "gameplay" trailers I saw this year at E3 where just moving from one noninteractive cutscene to the next, sometimes with some quicktime events thrown in. This seems to be a growing trend over the last 5 years. The so called "cinematic" games as they market them are often just movies rendered on your platform of choice with just barely enough player interaction thrown in to make it technically meet the definition of a video game. Open world is growing but so is the "cinematic" action genre/market. Edit: I should clarify that I am referring to AAA games. Indie games don't have the money to make those kinds of cutscenes even if they wanted to. Edit 2: I should also clarify that my post had nothing to do with linear design. I think you may have misunderstood me.
"Normally if given a choice between doing something and nothing, I’d choose to do nothing. But I would do something if it helps someone else do nothing. I’d work all night if it meant nothing got done."
-Ron Swanson "I shall be a good politician, even if it kills me. Or if it kills anyone else for that matter. " -Mark Antony 06-16-2017, 05:09 AM
(06-15-2017, 05:02 PM)MayImilae Wrote: Aaaanyway, all of this is just clarifying my original point! Linearity is falling out of favor, and open worlds are now the new favorite among AAA developers. Even among small devs, games are no longer trying to be Cave Story (retro linear narrative platformer) or Super Meat Boy (retro linear-paths super hard platformer), but are taking techniques defined in Rogue Legacy, the first Roguelite, and mixing them into other genres. A roguelite, no matter the genre, is by its very nature non-linear (to the point that every single playthrough is unique!). I'm confused, what does linearity has to do with noninteractive cutscenes? I'm not too keen on linear game design and I'd like to see the correlation. I'm pretty sure from what most I've seen on E3 was just movie-esque like trailers and if you believe that these games won't be linear, then's where the association? Not trying to be nitpicky or argumentative here, I'm curious wanting to understand. NaturalViolence Wrote:Most of the "gameplay" trailers I saw this year at E3 where just moving from one noninteractive cutscene to the next, sometimes with some quicktime events thrown in. ... Edit 2: I should also clarify that my post had nothing to do with linear design. I think you may have misunderstood me. CDI Wrote:I'm pretty sure from what most I've seen on E3 was just movie-esque like trailers Wait, that's what you're complaining about? Your reply was clearly not directed at E3 trailers or in game cinematics. The original comment by mimimi was about a game being shown as nothing but cinematics, yes, but your response was entirely general. NaturalViolence Wrote:You've just described modern video games. That is clearly not focusing on E3 presentations, that's a comment on the entirety of modern video games! It's literally what you said. If you meant something different, then well, you phrased it poorly. :/ Anyway, regarding E3 being nothing but cinematic trailers and not gameplay... That's not really right anymore. Here is a trailer for the original Final Fantasy VII release. How much of it is you walking around with the super low polygon models, which is the majority of the game? None! The majority of the gameplay is literally not even shown! It hardly even shows the battle system, with only a few flashes of magic being activated and summons (in-engine cinematics). Compare that previous trailer to Anthem's reveal. It starts with a cinematic, showing someone climb into the suit. Then it shows a player controlling the suit exploring the game world, then engaging in battle on the ground with team mates! That's gameplay! (or rather representative of gameplay, you know, it's E3) Part of all of this is due to what I was talking about earlier - players are tired of linear experiences. They want to PLAY the games they get. So trailers are focusing more on gameplay than ever before, and less on fancy cinematics, because that's what people want to see. To bring this all the way back to the original joke... mimimi was pointing out one of the few non-gameplay trailers this E3. Most of them showed gameplay more than cinematics, certainly more gameplay than a few generations ago! Aaaanyway, this has all gotten quite a bit bigger than I wanted, so I'm going to be detaching from here on. We need to let random be random! AMD Threadripper Pro 5975WX PBO+200 | Asrock WRX80 Creator | NVIDIA GeForce RTX 4090 FE | 64GB DDR4-3600 Octo-Channel | Windows 11 23H1 | (details)
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06-16-2017, 07:01 PM
The game after game presentation everyone seemed to do this year didn't feel right to me, even Sony, I just had a feeling that something was missing, incomplete. At the end of the day I'd say Ubisoft had the most balanced presentation and I'm still cautious on getting a switch.
......?????
06-16-2017, 11:07 PM
(06-16-2017, 09:20 AM)MayImilae Wrote: Wait, that's what you're complaining about? Your reply was clearly not directed at E3 trailers or in game cinematics. The original comment by mimimi was about a game being shown as nothing but cinematics, yes, but your response was entirely general. I stand by NV's point regardless. Anthem, NFS and a few others was certainly in the minority of games that showed gameplay, but I rest my case as you wish. |
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