To add to the list of non-working drives, Sony DVD RW DRU-870S seems to be a no-go.
[Howto] Dump wii or gamecube games with pc [No wii needed!]
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09-14-2013, 09:30 PM
Link to raw dumper broken. Will any software that can access the "physical drive" work? For example HxD hex editor can access a physical drive and then save the contents to a file. Will that work?
09-14-2013, 09:33 PM
(03-23-2013, 08:49 AM)Garteal Wrote: I just mirrored it for you. You can download RawDump 2.1 here.See the link above. 09-14-2013, 09:36 PM
Cool. Thanks. Though while searching for it, I ended up finding I could get it here.
http://www.trisaster.de/download/nintend...p_v2.1.rar
A hex editor won't work unless you have one of the special DVD drives mentioned in this thread. A hex editor would request a file in whatever language it was written in; the low-level file I/O is handled by the OS which in turn needs to access a device through its drivers. The firmware in the DVD drives mentioned takes advantage of a special hardware quirk present in only a few DVD drives to read the raw disc data in a certain (and unintended) manner. In other words, it's possible, but only with the appropiate hardware. You can't force any old DVD drive to read Wii discs through software like that.
09-15-2013, 04:18 AM
(09-15-2013, 02:41 AM)Shonumi Wrote: A hex editor won't work unless you have one of the special DVD drives mentioned in this thread. A hex editor would request a file in whatever language it was written in; the low-level file I/O is handled by the OS which in turn needs to access a device through its drivers. The firmware in the DVD drives mentioned takes advantage of a special hardware quirk present in only a few DVD drives to read the raw disc data in a certain (and unintended) manner. In other words, it's possible, but only with the appropiate hardware. You can't force any old DVD drive to read Wii discs through software like that. Isn't it possible to force any DVD drive (with hacked firmware) to be able to read and write ANY format of DVD disk, using RAW read and write commands? By raw commands, I mean commands that allow software to control the exact position and timing the laser-head for read and write operations? This would allow the DVD player to read and write ANY arbitrary data format on ANY physical disk layout, including Sega Dreamcast disks, and the special Gamecube and Wii disks, and the special XBox and XBox360 disks, and any all copyprotections on these disks, such that disks could be ripped PERFECTLY for playing on an emulator, and burned PERFECTLY for backup disks that could be played on an unmodded console. 09-15-2013, 03:05 PM
Animedude5555 Wrote:Isn't it possible to force any DVD drive (with hacked firmware) to be able to read and write ANY format of DVD disk, using RAW read and write commands? The problem with that is it's very difficult write/hack firmware or drivers that allow arbitrary changes to the position and timings of the laser. If you have lots of time and experience reverse engineering hardware and writing drivers for it, it'd be possible. This of course, still assumes that the physical hardware permits the laser to read/write in the places you need, so that you truly do have complete control over raw read/write operation. The hardware itself might prevent certain read/write operations simply because it wasn't designed to handle them. I remember reading a lot about several efforts to get PSX games burned with ordinary PC CD drives to play on real hardware. Ultimately, one of the conclusions was that it wasn't possible since most consumer hardware can't read/write to certain areas of the disc (physical limitation, not software) that were used for copy-protection. For playing back on the original console, the Wii has BCA to contend with, which probably impedes playing burned backups on a Wii without using Homebrew. IIRC, the data on the Wii disc is scrambled or something to that effect, so it would need to be scrambled/unscambled when reading the disk initially and writing a backup for play on a Wii. 09-15-2013, 03:54 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-15-2013, 04:10 PM by Animedude5555.)
(09-15-2013, 03:05 PM)Shonumi Wrote:Well the physical limitations of the device are controlled by what areas of the disk are permissible for read/write operations. If a signal is sent that corresponds to such a location, it rejects it. Physically the rails on which the laser head moves would permit any possible reading or writing (no part of the disk is mechanically blocked from the laser head's view). What control's what's permissable? Well that's stored in an EPROM chip. That is the firmware. In fact for copyprotection reasons, the game makers probably DEMAND that hardware makers include firmware that EXCLUDES such read/write operations. This means that it is possible for a hacker to create firmware that removes this restriction. As for encrypting the disks, you simply use the reverse process of decryption. When you use software even on your wii to dump an ISO. The disk image you get is ENCRYPTED. You use a decrypter to get at the raw data (such as the program WiiScrubber that allows editing the ISO). If you can get software that decrypts it, you should also be able to get software than will re-encrypt it prior to burning it.' Wrote:Isn't it possible to force any DVD drive (with hacked firmware) to be able to read and write ANY format of DVD disk, using RAW read and write commands? In theory it is possible for an ordinary drive with the right hacked firmware, in conjunction with the right hacked drivers, in conjunction with the right ripping/burning software, to be able to create a disk that would play in a completely unmodded console. Considering that the NSA can hack cellphones and listen to everything you say, I'm sure now that there is NO FORM of data protection that is truly 100% uncrackable. It just takes a hacker with enough time and and technical knowledge to be able to devise the proper hack for the system. The only reason hacker's haven't yet broken modern game encryptions, and devised hacked firmware for their disk burners, is that they have previously discovered modchips and softmodding, which is apparently easier to do, and after discovering this, they didn't bother trying to make hacked DVD reader/burner firmware and drivers. However once a person is able to accomplish this, they'll be able to create backups without having to worry about bricking their console with softmods, or frying the circuits with accidental wrong mod chip wiring. Personally, I'd like to see more game hackers work on devising a way to let ordinary DVD drives read GC and Wii disks, and even further, to devise a way to let ordinary DVD burners create disks that run on a real unmodded hardware. In fact I think my drive could read a GC disk if it had hacked firmware. The software HxD reported the drive reported a CRC error with the disk and refused to keep reading. But RawDump detected the disk as a GC disk and then encountered an unspecified error (probably the CRC error reported by HxD) and then stopped. If even a program DESIGNED to dump a GC game and did detect it as such, will report an error, this suggests that the CRC check is done at a hardware level (not in the software). Apparantly part of the DVD drive protocol is for the hardware to write CRCs for the data written to the disk, and then when reading the data to verify the CRCs, and to refuse to transfer the data to the computer if a CRC check fails. And guess what part of the drive most likely performs the CRC check. I'd say it is the firmware of the drive that would contain a CRC checking routine. So how do you force the drive to spit out whatever data it's reading, and ignore the failed CRCs? Well you obviously need to alter the firmware. My drive was compatible enough that the RawDump software could detect the disk type was indeed a GC disk, but not compatible enough to actually transfer the game data. I think that my drive could with hacked firmware, actually support full reading of GC and Wii disks. One must wonder why the CRC fails. I've got 2 ideas: 1) Part of the copyprotection involves corrupting the CRCs so that a computer DVD drive can't read it, but the GC drive just ignores the CRCs, or stores them at some place other than the standard DVD specification. The copyprotection data that determines if a GC drive can read it is written to yet some other place on the disk. or 2) Part of the copyprotection involves writing copyprotection data to where the CRCs normally are, so that not only are computer DVD drives unable to access it, but GC drives will refuse to access it if the special data is not present there. Additionally the CRCs may be written elsewhere, and thee GC drive knows where to look, or no CRC is used, so the GC drive doesn't expect to ever have to check the CRCs. Either way they don't adhere to the official technical specs for DVDs, so technically they aren't actual DVD disks. So a DVD drive wouldn't be required to support their format. Animedude5555 Wrote:Well the physical limitations of the device are controlled by what areas of the disk are permissible for read/write operations. If a signal is sent that corresponds to such a location, it rejects it. Physically the rails on which the laser head moves would permit any possible reading or writing (no part of the disk is mechanically blocked from the laser head's view). What control's what's permissable? Well that's stored in an EPROM chip. That is the firmware. In fact for copyprotection reasons, the game makers probably DEMAND that hardware makers include firmware that EXCLUDES such read/write operations. This means that it is possible for a hacker to create firmware that removes this restriction. As for encrypting the disks, you simply use the reverse process of decryption. When you use software even on your wii to dump an ISO. The disk image you get is ENCRYPTED. You use a decrypter to get at the raw data (such as the program WiiScrubber that allows editing the ISO). If you can get software that decrypts it, you should also be able to get software than will re-encrypt it prior to burning it. (Note the following is still in regards to PSX disc burning) I was wrong about data being out of reach by a CD/DVD drives lasers. It's been at least two years since I looked at the discussion. However, there are still certain physical limitations of consumer hardware, mostly related to Sony's 22Khz "wobble" that couldn't be reliably reproduced (compared to, say, professional-grade disc duplication). There was some small success, but not enough to boot the games. Although this is more a physical limitation of the media (consumer-grade CD vs a commercial game) from what I gather. Links to PSX selfboots attempts: http://club.myce.com/f61/new-psx-ps2-sel...ead-73691/ http://club.myce.com/f61/psx-cdr-atip-wobble-81145/ http://club.myce.com/f61/tracking-coil-m...ion-97440/ Animedude5555 Wrote:In theory it is possible for an ordinary drive with the right hacked firmware, in conjunction with the right hacked drivers, in conjunction with the right ripping/burning software, to be able to create a disk that would play in a completely unmodded console. Both the GC and the Wii use BCA for copy-protection. How would you get around that on a completely unmodded console? Animedude5555 Wrote:Considering that the NSA can hack cellphones and listen to everything you say, I'm sure now that there is NO FORM of data protection that is truly 100% uncrackable. Properly used one-time cipher pads were mathematically proven resistant to cryptanalysis and brute-force attacks. The trick is using them properly. It's not impossible, just impractical. Animedude5555 Wrote:The only reason hacker's haven't yet broken modern game encryptions, and devised hacked firmware for their disk burners, is that they have previously discovered modchips and softmodding, which is apparently easier to do, and after discovering this, they didn't bother trying to make hacked DVD reader/burner firmware and drivers. Modchips were widely available around the time people were looking into burning bootable PSX discs. They still couldn't go far enough even though there was considerable interest in burning bootable backup discs with ordinary CD/DVD drives. EDIT: Animedude5555 Wrote:One must wonder why the CRC fails. I've got 2 ideas: Just throwing out a guess, perhaps it's something to do with constant-angular-velocity? Nintendo choose that for anti-piracy reasons, maybe as a safeguard against people trying to read discs with their PCs. Optical storage technology is not my domain, so I can't say for sure. |
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