Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

Thank you, I was about to post that. All you have to do to prove that wrong is watch a blu-ray movie or play a game at a high resolution at 60 fps and then at 24 fps. It's not just noticeable, it's a world of difference.

(06-12-2010, 02:01 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you, I was about to post that. All you have to do to prove that wrong is watch a blu-ray movie or play a game at a high resolution at 60 fps and then at 24 fps. It's not just noticeable, it's a world of difference.

You're right. A game would in most cases look crummy if capped at 24fps.

Bluray films and cinematic movies in general are capped at 23.94 frames per second because if the motion is too fluid, it looks unrealistic and breaks the suspension of disbelief.

You could use homemade camera films as an example. Often recorded at 30-50 fps or more, it looks really clumsy.

PAL video games are rendered with 625 lines of resolution, and NTSC with 525, which gives PAL slightly higher definition. But in NTSC games, 30 alternating fields per second are shown twice to create motion from a picture source (rounded 60 fps but technically 59.94fps) and PAL games only show 25 alternating fields per second twice.

People who are extremely sensitive might notice a speed difference between the two but it's very rare. If looking from a pure speed perspective, NTSC is "faster" but also slightly lower quality.

Ocean is just a techno freak here...Any problem you have got, just ask ocean...

Yup. He is right (as always). Our eyes can see upto 26 images distinctly.. If we are shown even 20 pictures a second, our eyes presumes that it is in motion and hence we see things in motion...
A second clip of a film contains as many as 20-30 pictures of slightest difference..that's why we see FILM IN MOTION...
This principle applies in games too...Games generate frames faster than human eyes' image persistence time...(The time for which image retains in human eyes...If we are shown another image while we have still previous image, we see that two images in combined and motion effect...

For NTSC and PAL, they are broadcasting formats. PAL is newer so you can expect that PAL is more better than NTSC...

That's All Folks:p

well there's your answer(s)

oh geez, after reading this i have come to conclude 2 things:
- my head hurts
- you guys are all extreeme nerds (in a good way )

U think i m nerd...??????
Good joke, LOL

Quote:Yup. He is right (as always). Our eyes can see upto 26 images distinctly.. If we are shown even 20 pictures a second, our eyes presumes that it is in motion and hence we see things in motion...
A second clip of a film contains as many as 20-30 pictures of slightest difference..that's why we see FILM IN MOTION...
This principle applies in games too...Games generate frames faster than human eyes' image persistence time...(The time for which image retains in human eyes...If we are shown another image while we have still previous image, we see that two images in combined and motion effect...

That's not correct at all. Please read the article he linked, it explains is perfectly. Human eyes don't have a "framerate", we just see changes. The more detailed an image is the higher you will need to have the framerate to avoid stuttering. Anything higher than 24 fps is unnoticeable with standard definition content such as DVD movies due to the extremely low resolution. But with high resolution content such as a blu-ray movie or games running at a high resolution the image quality is extremely high, therefor their is a high level of change occurring from one frame to another, and therefore you need to have a much higher framerate. 24 fps at 1920 x 1080 is unbearable, 30 fps is watchable, 60 fps is smooth, and believe it or not the difference between 60 fps and 120 fps is extremely noticeable, 120 fps is super smooth and anything higher than that is unnoticeable in my opinion.

It also mathematically makes sense if you compare the number of pixels in each frame to the framerate. 1080p is 5 times the resolution of 480p and therefor has 5 times as much potential pixel change from frame to frame. Therefore the framerate needs to be 5 times as high in order for the motion quality to be maintained. 24 fps x 5 = 120 fps.

Quote:Bluray films and cinematic movies in general are capped at 23.94 frames per second because if the motion is too fluid, it looks unrealistic and breaks the suspension of disbelief.

You could use homemade camera films as an example. Often recorded at 30-50 fps or more, it looks really clumsy.

Not true. All commercial blu-ray movies are 60 fps. It's a standard for the blu-ray format in fact. My blu-ray player has a setting that lets me control the output framerate to my monitor and I can tell you capping it at 24 fps makes the motion quality AWFUL. At that resolution 24 fps creates terrible stuttering. Usually when a blu-ray is hooked up to a monitor via a cable that can only transmit 24 or 30 fps the player combines frames during the output. So instead of stuttering you get blurring between frames. Which is just as bad imo, although less annoying. Also nearly all HD camcorders record at 60 fields per second when the resolution is set to 1920 x 1080 and 60 frames per second when the resolution is set to 1366 x 768 or lower. It does not look clumsy at all. It looks great, if you set the framerate lower however (which most camcorders let you do) it does look clumsy due to the awful stuttering.

@NaturalViolence
now thats all i would like to say just could not put words into it! :-) complete misinterpret of term what eye can see in their posts,regarding playing on latest high tech

+1

It just annoys me when people say "but our eyes can only see [insert seemingly random number here] frames per second". I could go even deeper and delve into how the human eye interprets light which explains perfectly why we don't have a "framerate". But I thought that would be excessive and also the article he posted a link to explains it perfectly. In fact I discovered that very article about 2 years ago when I first got curious about this, that's where I learned all of this from.

(06-13-2010, 05:38 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]Not true. All commercial blu-ray movies are 60 fps. It's a standard for the blu-ray format in fact.

I have no idea what you're talking about because *all* high definition cinema is shot at 24 frames per second and displayed through blu-ray media at 1920x1080x24p.

Quote:http://www.poynton.com/PDFs/Magic_Numbers.pdf

As Charles Poynton explains, the 24 frame/s rate is not just a cinema standard, it is also "uniquely suited to conversion to both 50 Hz systems (through 2:2 pulldown, 4% fast) and 59.94 Hz systems (through 2:3 pulldown, 0.1% slow). Choosing a rate other than 24 frame/s would compromise this widely accepted method of conversion, and make it difficult for film producers to access international markets"

Every Hollywood movie is laid to disc as a 24p (actually 23.976p – see below) stream. With a progressive-scan DVD player and a progressive display, such as an HDTV, only the progressive frames are displayed and there is no conversion to an interlaced format – eliminating the appearance of any interlace or de-interlacing artifacts.

There is no such thing as a 60fps blu-ray movie. You can't display frames faster than they were shot. You can, of course select 60hz viewing mode to attempt to make motion seem fluider. But you can't view a movie at 60fps when it was shot at 24.

These are the only blu-ray movies in existence not shot at 24 frames per second on a HD camera

Quote:Planet Earth (US)
Chris Botti Live
Bruce Springsteen: Live in Dublin
Bikini Destination: Triple Fantasy
The Black Crowes: Freak N' Roll

Here is a quote from Sony

Quote:Most of all Hollywood movies are shot at 24 frames per second, and Blu-ray Disc™ movies are mastered at 24 frame per second, so it is only fitting that the Sony® Blu-ray Disc™ Players can output your films at 1080/24p for a true film-like experience at home.

If you get choppy playback it might be because your display cannot properly display 24p (but there is a chance it can be updated through service mode if the TV has a service usb port). For this reason some bluray players can send multiplied frames from source material to an older HDTV display at 250% speed in 60hertz refresh rate. Not all TV sets can display in true 24p though, this is usually always mentioned in the technical details of the TV separately.