Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

Great to hear about the LLE plugin! But a question if i may- When you say the performance will be better, does that mean on existing dual cores? As in, we won't have to have a triple or quad to get the performance you speak of will we?

I have an Athlon II x2. Two cores, two threads. I have tried the LLE plugin in the past and it's probably 3x as slow at least than the HLE plugin. But you're saying all those speed issues will be gone in the future, and it will perform BETTER than the HLE plugin even for people like myself with average dual cores?

Just clarifying, thanks!

EDIT- Just tested the latest revision with the LLE plugin. Still glitchy sounding, but getting better. But you were right! Looks like the speed issues are being fixed! Again, still needs some more speed improvements, but it's far far better than before.

Well LLE JIT should improve performance considerably, it's not even finished yet and the performance is already slightly better than normal LLE without JIT although sound is a bit messed up with LLE JIT right now.

I'm not sure, but I think once LLE on thread is fixed it will mean LLE on thread can be used with dual core cpu's without games locking up, I think tri or quad cores would likely benefit more from LLE on thread though. LLE on thread probably won't work on single core cpu's though but LLE JIT should be sufficient enough for performance once it's properly implemented.

Quote:By the way, everyone will be using LLE quite soon and here is why:

It produces more accurate sound compared to the HLE plugin and everything works almost identical to the actual hardware including Zelda, Mario sound and music. All this without having to add hacks for looping as they had to do with AFC looping for intro and cinematic music in Zelda: Twilight Princess.

This means sound and music in Zelda and Mario games such as Zelda Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy will work without cutting out, all sound effects/music should be properly outputted unlike with the HLE plugin. This will not only fix sound and music in Zelda/Mario games, many other games that exhibit sound issues such as Resident Evil Zero/Remake/2/3/4, Wario World will finally have working sound.

Once LLE JIT is properly implemented, performance will be on par with the HLE plugin, even better once LLE on thread is properly implemented without any games locking up.

Of course you are free to continue using the HLE plugin, that is if you don't mind continuing to deal with sound issues that will probably not be fixed any time soon. I think the developers stated there is not much more they can do for the current HLE plugin, which is why they are focusing on the LLE plugin instead.

Weird. I have the exact opposite experience. HLE reproduces audio almost perfectly in zelda and mario games while LLE does a terrible job (most audio doesn't even play, the sounds that do play usually cut in and out, skip, or are way to loud or way to soft, I even get the occasional crackling with it in some games like metroid prime). I don't use HLE because of the better performance (although that is an added benefit), I use it because it's the only way I can get proper audio emulation in most of my games. Did they do some major changes in recent builds that made it a whole lot better? That's the only explanation I can think of, using build 3412 right now.

Quote:HLE reproduces audio almost perfectly in zelda and mario games while LLE does a terrible job

No it doesn't, HLE is a hacky mess, there's sound effects missing, music missing, looping issues and music will cut out after a while for some games. Although I will agree that LLE is terrible for now, at least with LLE JIT or LLE on thread. It's nearly impossible for you to have the exact opposite experience, when these issues are bugs with the emulator and sound plugin that exist for everyone.

Zelda Windwaker and Mario Sunshine reproduce near perfect sound except for a few minor issues. Mario Galaxy music doesn't loop properly and Zelda Twilight Princess has various issues with sound and music output as I've described below:

Zelda Twilight Princess - Issues with incorrect looping of music samples and sound effects are still present even with the latest AFC looping hacks, some sound effects and music are missing or aren't outputted correctly, sound/music no longer cuts out with the latest AFC looping hacks except for the third patch that was posted.

Zelda Windwaker - Sound and music is pretty much perfect except for a few minor issues.

Resident Evil Zero/Remake/2/3/4 - Certain sound effects missing, garbled or messed up (Well for Zero when choosing new or load game the voice that says Resident Evil Zero is messed up as well as the sound effect when you switch partners), background music, ambient music and certain sound effects will cut out after a bit or not play.

Super Mario Galaxy - Music is is pretty much perfect with HLE, except it doesn't loop and will cut out after playing for a bit or when other sound events happen.

If it weren't for the the latest work on the AFC looping hack, music and sound would still stop after a bit in Zelda Twilight Princess with the HLE plugin, music still cuts out with Mario Galaxy. Music and sound in Zelda Twilight Princess is still not accurate with HLE and still has quite a few issues. Even with the AFC looping hack there's still issues with looping and certain sound/music samples don't loop correctly, certain sound effects and music is missing. This would be quite apparent when comparing sound output to that of the original hardware, I've played these games on the actual hardware and know what they are supposed to sound like and can say these games don't sound like they should with Dolphin as they do on the actual hardware.

As you can see, not quite perfect or close to it..

LLE is more accurate to the actual hardware and as stated by developers sound output is pretty much perfect now except for a few issues, LLE should produce better sound than HLE. Just give it time, there are still some issues to be fixed and LLE with JIT will shine over HLE in due time. LLE JIT is an early work in progress and isn't perfect yet, it's completely normal for some issues to exist that particularly affect sound.

LLE crackles or pops because it's synced with the video unlike HLE sound that isn't properly synced and runs faster than the video output. When the video output is slow, sound output is also slow and it's completely normal for some crackling or popping to occur. This is true for almost any emulator where video/sound are accurately synced. There are also issues with LLE on thread and LLE JIT that currently affects sound output and produces poor output, but these issues should be fixed with further development over time.

Sorry for the long winded post, I'll wrap this up by saying LLE is supposed to fix most if not all of the current issues with the HLE plugin. LLE JIT will improve the performance of the LLE plugin so performance is just as good as with the HLE plugin once it is properly implemented.

Quote:No it doesn't, HLE is a hacky mess, there's sound effects missing, music missing, looping issues and music will cut out after a while for some games. It's impossible for you to have the exact opposite experience, when these issues are bugs with the emulator and sound plugin that exist for everyone.

I'm just telling you what my experience is like with lle, I don't appreciate being called a liar.

Quote:Zelda Windwaker - Sound and music is pretty much perfect except for a few minor issues.

Odd...out of all the games you listed with the exception of this one they all have few audio problems with hle for me, and you usually have to be listening for the few issues that they have to notice them. But for me wind waker is a complete mess with hle, audio is constantly skipping or running at the wrong speed, it gets to the point where some cutscenes have audio playing 30 seconds off sync. I know I'm not alone on this because of all the posts about it in the game discussion thread.

I really would like to avoid a flame war about this. I'm being completely honest about what the audio sounds like with lle for me.

Anyways lets get back on topic. Skid you mentioned you had some ideas on how to split the cpu thread, any chance you feel like sharing them?

Quote:I'm just telling you what my experience is like with lle, I don't appreciate being called a liar.

I didn't call you a liar, and yes those issues do exist. Whether or not you choose to acknowledge them is a completely different matter. Just read around a bit and you will see many other members reporting the same issues with the HLE plugin. These are bugs with the DSP-HLE plugin and exist for everyone, having owned a Wii myself I can tell you just how bad and inaccurate the sound output with the HLE plugin is compared to the actual hardware. I'm not calling you a liar as I mentioned, but I am going to say you are an extreme single minority that supposedly doesn't have most of the issues that everyone else is having.

I never said Windwaker sound is perfect, although it's close to perfect and is currently better than the sound output with Zelda Twilight Princess. For me, music on the title screen loops wrong but the in game music and sound is pretty much ok except for a few minor issues. I've played the game almost all the way through and didn't notice many issues with the sound or music, of course that might of changed since then.

I wonder if it occurred to you that there will be issues with the LLE plugin, and the issues you mentioned are normal considering the type of development taking place on the plugin? LLE JIT is an early work in progress, neither LLE JIT or LLE on thread work properly and sound output is quite horrid when using these.

As for the issues with normal LLE, refer to what I mentioned in my last post:

Quote:LLE crackles or pops because it's synced with the video unlike HLE sound that isn't properly synced and runs faster than the video output. When the video output is slow, sound output is also slow and it's completely normal for some crackling or popping to occur. This is true for almost any emulator where video/sound are accurately synced.

Also since the LLE plugin is more accurate and due to core timing issues of the emulator itself, some skipping is normal. If the game is running at full speed without slowdowns, normal LLE shouldn't exhibit these issues and should output better sound than HLE. Just give it some time and the benefits of the LLE plugin will outweigh the downsides of the HLE plugin.

What do HLE and LLE stand for ? High-Level Emulation and Low-Level Emulation ?

Yes, that is correct. Low level emulation (LLE) is more accurate, but requires more resources and is slower than HLE. LLE JIT is supposed to improve performance of the LLE plugin, but is quite buggy and sound is a bit broken up, same for the LLE on thread option. However once LLE on thread and LLE JIT are properly implemented, performance should be as good as it is with the HLE plugin and the LLE plugin should output better sound than the HLE plugin currently does.

Quote:I'm not calling you a liar as I mentioned, but I am going to say you are an extreme single minority that supposedly doesn't have most of the issues that everyone else is having.

I have some issues with hle same as everyone else, I just have a lot MORE issues with lle is all. Overall hle only has a few small issues with zelda and mario games for me, otherwise it's perfect. But I do understand that the developers have basically taken hle as far as it can go and the only way they can progress audio emulation any further is to improve lle, but in my opinion lle is still unusable at this stage. If this weren't the case they wouldn't be bothering with jit lle and lle on thread considering how difficult it is and all the trouble you have to go through to get proper syncing.

I propose a version of multi-core and multi-tread
He has not faster but there have months of slowdown in games with more synchronization plugins
example plugins wiimote
Just a test :
http://www.mediafire.com/file/1imjmwdrdm4/R5406_x64.rar