(03-05-2020, 06:13 AM)mbc07 Wrote: [ -> ]They should. I mean, any reasonably clocked Intel Haswell CPU or newer should handle nearly anything you can throw at Dolphin (e.g. the overclocked Pentium G3258 from my signature, despite being just a dual core CPU, never experienced any slowdown in Dolphin -- although I can't tell if that would remain true for Factor 5 games like Rogue Squadron).
Considering current Zen 2 AMD CPUs allegedly surpasses the IPC of current Coffee Lake Intel CPUs, and taking into account that Coffee Lake is several generations newer than Haswell, Ryzen 3000 CPUs should be more than enough to run virtually anything in Dolphin flawlessly...
Thanks. This is what I figured as well. I should be quite safe with one of those Ryzen processors if I go down the route of building a mini PC. I don't believe the 3200/3400G processors are Zen 2 based though sadly, I think they are Zen+. My main surprise was that the i7-3770 couldn't handle everything, but then again, it is pre-Haswell so perhaps I was expecting a bit too much. Unless of course, something else is going on, but I don't think so. It was better in Windows under DX11/12 but still not perfect.
On your Pentium are you able to increase the resolution up from native without an issue? Have you tried F-Zero GX (in particular the Big Blue stage, which I believe is the first track if you select the Sapphire Cup)?
Thanks!
I do have access to a work laptop which has an i7-6820HQ in it with a discrete NVidia Quadro M1200 inside, but it only has Windows 10 on it.
I stuck Dolphin on there, and curiously, when using OpenGL or Vulkan as the backend, at 1080p the intro and big blue stage still stutter and don't run too great. DX12 is even worse.
However, with DX11, it runs really well at 1080p with 2xMSAA and 16xAF, with just the very occasional minor drop under 60fps. Pushing to 4xMSAA worked, but on the last lap I got some quite bad slowdown at a certain point in the track, but only for about 5 seconds.
Will need to test more. I wonder if it is a combination of factors on my other system. Older processor, Linux (no DX11), and the fact F-Zero GX is probably in the top 5 of most taxing games for Dolphin to run.
If I go down the AMD route with a new self-built mini PC such as the DeskMini A300, i'm kind of hoping that the AMD OpenGL and Vulkan backends are better than the NVidia equivalent, especially in Linux as DX11 is not available. Because as I've just seen, even in Windows using the OpenGL or Vulkan backends simply do not run as well as DX11 does.
(03-05-2020, 09:37 AM)movisman Wrote: [ -> ]On your Pentium are you able to increase the resolution up from native without an issue? Have you tried F-Zero GX (in particular the Big Blue stage, which I believe is the first track if you select the Sapphire Cup)?
I can't go higher than 720p on most games but that's due the ancient GT 440 GPU bottlenecking the rest of the system. I do own F-Zero GX but never actually tried to go higher than 720p. The GT 650M from my laptop probably can handle this resolution, however it has an Ivy Bridge CPU that should be weaker than your i7-3770 due to the lower clock speeds, so I'm not sure if testing on it would have any relevance. I can still try if you want, just let me know.
Regarding Haswell, I remember that when Intel released those CPUs, benchmarks at the time suggested modest improvements over Ivy Bridge, but despite that, the performance increase on Dolphin was way higher (I can't find the thread anymore but it was suggested to be a 40% improvement in Dolphin). Taking that into consideration, Zen+ should be more than sufficient, even if the general CPU benchmarks suggests modest improvements...
(03-06-2020, 09:33 AM)mbc07 Wrote: [ -> ]I can't go higher than 720p on most games but that's due the ancient GT 440 GPU bottlenecking the rest of the system. I do own F-Zero GX but never actually tried to go higher than 720p. The GT 650M from my laptop probably can handle this resolution, however it has an Ivy Bridge CPU that should be weaker than your i7-3770 due to the lower clock speeds, so I'm not sure if testing on it would have any relevance. I can still try if you want, just let me know.
Regarding Haswell, I remember that when Intel released those CPUs, benchmarks at the time suggested modest improvements over Ivy Bridge, but despite that, the performance increase on Dolphin was way higher (I can't find the thread anymore but it was suggested to be a 40% improvement in Dolphin). Taking that into consideration, Zen+ should be more than sufficient, even if the general CPU benchmarks suggests modest improvements...
Hi,
Yeah that's true, maybe if you have a spare moment you could give it a try on each backend and see how it performs. But no worries as it probably doesn't have much relevance. Certainly on the fairly punchy work machine I have, it really only runs well in Windows on DX11. If I am able to, and when I have time, I might dual boot this work machine and see if it runs similarly in Ubuntu using OpenGL or Vulkan compared to Windows. Windows wasn't great with those backends for F-Zero GX, given the fact the machine is pretty decent spec wise.
I think the main test will be for me to try an AMD based system (probably one of their APU models) in Linux and simply see what happens. My main hope would be that OpenGL or Vulkan backends are better in Linux on AMD (vs. Nvidia). I'll have a think about what to do next...
Regarding Haswell, I read this too which is what made me think that my old i7-3770 just wasn't up to the task for Dolphin and needed to really be Haswell based or higher.
However, the fact that in Windows my work i7-6820HQ / Quadro M1200 struggles to run F-Zero GX at 1080p using OpenGL or Vulkan (DX11 is great) gives me food for thought.
(03-06-2020, 09:38 PM)movisman Wrote: [ -> ]However, the fact that in Windows my work i7-6820HQ / Quadro M1200 struggles to run F-Zero GX at 1080p using OpenGL or Vulkan (DX11 is great) gives me food for thought.
Keep in mind that you tested a laptop, one with both a high-end i7 CPU and a somewhat high-end Quadro GPU. If that particular laptop doesn't have an exceptionally well thermal management design (in fact most don't, unless it's a gaming laptop), it's very likely that you might have hit some thermal throttling to prevent the system from overheating...
(03-07-2020, 07:50 AM)mbc07 Wrote: [ -> ]Keep in mind that you tested a laptop, one with both a high-end i7 CPU and a somewhat high-end Quadro GPU. If that particular laptop doesn't have an exceptionally well thermal management design (in fact most don't, unless it's a gaming laptop), it's very likely that you might have hit some thermal throttling to prevent the system from overheating...
Maybe, but I did set everything at maximum performance, as well as the maximum performance but "most noise" thermal controls in the DELL Power Manager. When flipping between OpenGL, Vulkan and DX11, it was consistent every time and the drops are always in the same areas (DX11 by far the best while the other two stuttered in a similar way to on the Linux machine, but not as bad).
I have experienced throttling with that machine when trying to run a new game on it (Resident Evil 2 demo) just to see how well it could handle something like that. Surprisingly well on the lower settings, but once it got too hot things went downhill fast and the fans went mad. The laptop definitely doesn't have great thermal management.
But in Dolphin the CPU doesn't seem to throttle, not that I can tell.
Going back to my old but still current instance of Ubuntu which runs RetroPie, this small machine only has an i5-4590T inside which has a base clock of 2.00ghz (turbo 3.00ghz) and built in Intel HD 4600 Graphics. No ability to upgrade. Games like F-Zero GX have always struggled on this machine at native resolution and base settings in OpenGL, but is better in Vulkan (but still not great). Some games work great though. However I found this evening that on this system, enabling Skip EFB Access From CPU in the hacks area really speeds things up for F Zero GX, especially in Vulkan. On this (underpowered) machine, with that setting enabled, at native res F-Zero GX only stutters during complex track intros and when waiting for the lights to go out. In game it is much more stable in terms of framerate. So that was an interesting find.
(03-07-2020, 10:02 AM)movisman Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe, but I did set everything at maximum performance, as well as the maximum performance but "most noise" thermal controls in the DELL Power Manager. When flipping between OpenGL, Vulkan and DX11, it was consistent every time and the drops are always in the same areas (DX11 by far the best while the other two stuttered in a similar way to on the Linux machine, but not as bad).
I have experienced throttling with that machine when trying to run a new game on it (Resident Evil 2 demo) just to see how well it could handle something like that. Surprisingly well on the lower settings, but once it got too hot things went downhill fast and the fans went mad. The laptop definitely doesn't have great thermal management.
But in Dolphin the CPU doesn't seem to throttle, not that I can tell.
Going back to my old but still current instance of Ubuntu which runs RetroPie, this small machine only has an i5-4590T inside which has a base clock of 2.00ghz (turbo 3.00ghz) and built in Intel HD 4600 Graphics. No ability to upgrade. Games like F-Zero GX have always struggled on this machine at native resolution and base settings in OpenGL, but is better in Vulkan (but still not great). Some games work great though. However I found this evening that on this system, enabling Skip EFB Access From CPU in the hacks area really speeds things up for F Zero GX, especially in Vulkan. On this (underpowered) machine, with that setting enabled, at native res F-Zero GX only stutters during complex track intros and when waiting for the lights to go out. In game it is much more stable in terms of framerate. So that was an interesting find.
Well EFB is indeed very taxing but disabling it (if the game needs the EFB) can lead to game breaking bugs or graphical glitches. This is usually controlled by the gameini to make sure that all users have a working / finishable game. So if the devs enabled it in the gameini the game probably needs it for something crucial.
(03-12-2020, 06:41 PM)mstreurman Wrote: [ -> ]Well EFB is indeed very taxing but disabling it (if the game needs the EFB) can lead to game breaking bugs or graphical glitches. This is usually controlled by the gameini to make sure that all users have a working / finishable game. So if the devs enabled it in the gameini the game probably needs it for something crucial.
Indeed, I was aware about it potentially breaking stuff if disabled. I've left it on across the board, but in F-Zero GX's case I have left it disabled and I personally haven't noticed any detrimental effects as a result. I haven't tested loads though, did maybe half a dozen races and all was good (so far).