If we ported over the Emulated Wiimotion+ 1:1 how it is in the old build, would it be possible to complete Skyward Sword? Yeah, probably. Would it be enjoyable? For most people, no. A few people are probably stubborn enough to deal with subpar controls, constantly customizing and changing things, and making things work without a Wii Remote.
The problem with doing this is that we don't want half-assed Wiimotion+ support, we want working Wiimotion+ support. We want correct Wiimotion+ support. Even in Dolphin's emulated bluetooth path + real Wii Remotes there are issues with Wiimotion+, so it's likely there are already dormant bugs awaiting us.
If you really want emulated Wiimotion+ to be a part of dolphin going forward, stop trying to convince us that the game is playable. That doesn't do anything. Research Wiimotion+, figure out the bugs, clean up the code, rework how it's implemented. Don't give us recorded gestures, we need to be able to truly configure it properly. Make it into something that preserves Wiimotion+ and allows the code to be reused for real gyro controllers like the Vive, Sixaxis, etc. Then if you want to make third party scripts that execute gestures you can knock yourself out with it.
JMC47 Wrote:If you really want emulated Wiimotion+ to be a part of dolphin going forward, stop trying to convince us that the game is playable. That doesn't do anything. Research Wiimotion+, figure out the bugs, clean up the code, make a PR. With Qt, making a proper GUI for it is easier than ever.
*sigh* Just to reiterate, by it's very nature a game built for genuine motion controls is not compatible with mapping gestures to button presses. It simply can't be good. For example, we have emulated wiimote support, and yet any title that actually
uses the motion potential of the wii remote is horrible with a gamepad! Wii Motion Plus games are even worse, since they map complex motions using 13 axis and 12 buttons all at the same time!
The gestures as buttons concept only works in titles that don't actually use motion controls, or use them very simply.
Yet more hacking to try to make skyward sword work on a keyboard is not the way forward. The solution is VR controllers and open VR APIs. Motion controls can only be emulated well by other motion controllers. Of course we'll need to expose raw button and axis mapping as well for TAS and the odd motion controller outside of VR APIs, but the gesture by button press model is not a solution.
I mean, I beat the game using emulated motion plus on a gamepad and had a blast with it. You don't "need to constantly change" everything to play the game. The super sensitive profile was only used during select puzzles and the drawing. Changing profiles was a fast alt-tab with the window remaining open and clicking a button real fast. Not like I have to shut down everything and reinsert nuclear launch codes to get the profile to load.
A couple points were horrific to play, yea. But the overall experience was still fun. Seeing Link swing his sword like he was in a Donnie Yen film didn't detract from it for me.
The issue I keep seeing come up is that people are stuck on the fact that a couple different control profiles need to be used and switched between at a few points during the campaign. This ignores the fact and jumps over the main point I am making in my prior post where the game, whether you enjoy it this way or not, is playable and beatable with this emulation in place.
I will reiterate, again, that despite switching between profiles for certain puzzles, I had a blast with the game and it is one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time. Yes, I got frustrated like crazy at the drawing segments I had to clear and retry a million times, but those were few and far enough between that it wasn't a constant fear or downer.
Basic facts: Does it work? Yes. Can I complete the game with It? Yes. Is it ideal? No. Does it map or work perfect? Definitely not. Can you still have fun? If you don't mind switching profiles once in a while and fighting one kind of specific puzzle in the game, sure. Are there better ways to play? Most definitely.
Something I don't get is the utter contempt people have for this emulated motion plus build. Yes, the original dev was aparently a jerk (or whatever drama happened there), and yes it's not ideal. Is it because it doesn't work 100% and doesn't map perfectly? Probably. I get the desire to have continue to have and develop the highest quality emulator on the market today, but options aren't a bad thing, and if you don't like them, dont use them. There's that version of Dolphin that implemented async and vulkan/dx12 specific features out there and I didn't see this level of hate thrown at it... Realizing I'm debating things on the internet and how quickly this is gonna go bad now... Brought it on myself, oh well.
Side Note: I'd love to be able to help, as a previous post suggested, in cleaning up code and developing things with Dolphin. Only one problem: I'm not a developer or coder, have no skills in those departments, and work in a wholly non-technical field that is not lend itself to learning this stuff. It's not so simple for me. This is legitimately all that I have available to me right now, less I buy a whole dolphinbar setup and motion plus controllers.
Edits: Grammar because autocorrect seems to have lost its mind tonight.
The problem is that if it were added as is, it'd make the Wii Remote code absolutely unmaintainable. Look at what happened with something like Hybrid Wii Remotes which was unmaintained despite not being as intrusive.
Having a game be playable is nice, it really is. That's great as a proof of concept, but, what we really need is a sustainable implementation that can be maintained. Wiimotion+ needs to be implemented within the scope of the other attachments. And honestly? We really need to fix up how the other attachments are handled either. Wiimotion+ is the grand daddy of them all in terms of complexity.
Here's my outline for how we'd handle it.
1: Wiimotion+ has to be implemented within an existing attachment system.
2: The GUI for Wiimotion+ would focus on Gyro Controllers (DS4, DS3, Six Axis, Vive Controllers, Oculus Controllers, etc.)
3: The underlying mechanics for mapping the axis' would be made available (possibly through INIs? I don't know if we could have a clean enough GUI implementation, but with Qt anything is possible I guess?) for TASers and people who want to configure it through controller.
I think the biggest blocker is 1 - I'm not convinced our current attachment system is all that great. Honestly, a decent first step would be a dummy Wiimotion+ attachment. No controls, no configuration, but, an attachment that could correctly reply to the game and say "hey, a Wiimotion+ attachment is plugged in." If anyone has any other ideas or if I missed something, please let me know.
(04-19-2018, 09:23 PM)Pseudo2018-000 Wrote: [ -> ]@ mstreurman:
I don't try to complete it on 3.0. I complete it at 100% without any problem, you just need 3 things:
1-the good version 3.0 of Dolphin (J.Peterson), not the 3.5 version that isn't working
2-a good profile
3-a tutorial for the profile
I finish it with a gamepad some years ago, it was just awesome! I don't use save from the wii. Like I said the important thing is the option Hide IR, there are some very little part in the game that you need to turn it on.
I really need help setting this up on Mac, I want to play on a mouse and keyboard as my Wii Motion Plus accessory is broken. I am almost certain that there is no build for Mac, however, if given guidance, I am willing to create one myself no matter how long it takes. I just need to know what I need to do to create the build ( I know many programming languages: Python Java JavaScript etc.) I would greatly appreciate any form of help
Thank You
In my video, you can see that I never change my profile. So you don't need to change the profil to finish the game. The 2 "most difficult" parts (eyes & circle), took me less than 30 seconds each. Also, I used a gamepad. If I use a keyboard & mouse, I just need one try for the circle.
Unfortunately, I don't know anything about coding. The only things I can do, is to show proof for Skyward Sword/Red Steel 2 & give some explanation. If it can help just some people, why not?
@ ImpossibleRubix: Now, I remember the puzzles. You're talking about the puzzles key just before each boss. That's weird, I never change my profile for that. The only thing is that sometimes you need to do a rotation. To do it, it's the same button that you use when you move your bird to the left or right.
@ IICuttingEdgeII: I don't know if a there's a Mac version. But I never saw one.
(06-06-2018, 07:19 AM)IICuttingEdgeII Wrote: [ -> ]I really need help setting this up on Mac, I want to play on a mouse and keyboard as my Wii Motion Plus accessory is broken. I am almost certain that there is no build for Mac, however, if given guidance, I am willing to create one myself no matter how long it takes. I just need to know what I need to do to create the build ( I know many programming languages: Python Java JavaScript etc.) I would greatly appreciate any form of help
Thank You
What about installing Windows into Bootcamp and unleash the real power of your hardware?
I considered doing so, but one Windows is relatively expensive, and two as much as I would love to dual boot, I feel like if there was a mod for mac, it would make it accessible to everyone who has a mac, and not force them to have to run Windows. I hate the MacBook, but it is not mine so therefore could not choose the laptop and would much rather prefer Windows, but what's the point?
I get where you are coming from though and appreciate the advice.
To ImpossibleRubix & other people that want to use his profile: I was surprised that someone that finished this game, said that the control for the gamepad isn't really good for some parts. So, I just take a little look at your profile. It's incomplete, have error & also very special (never see something like that):
1) you use the same axis to move Link & your bird to the left or right (really, really not good for aiming, flying, swimming...). I recommend that you use a combination for this one. So this way, even if there's only two stick on a gamepad, you can have a lot more than 2. But you need to keep it simple, Dolphin isn't good with complicated combination.
2) no button to enabled Hide IR, that's a miracle that you success to draw
3) no button to fire fast with the bow
(06-06-2018, 07:07 AM)JMC47 Wrote: [ -> ]The problem is that if it were added as is, it'd make the Wii Remote code absolutely unmaintainable. Look at what happened with something like Hybrid Wii Remotes which was unmaintained despite not being as intrusive...
Thanks for taking the time to explain this position to me. So many have been very hostile to this whole implementation from the get-go, and if messy, unmaintainable code is the main issue this has, aside from the inaccuracies it currently deals with, I wholly understand. At the very least, this is proof that an emulated implementation can work, if not accurately. I doubt it will ever make it into the mainline code of Dolphin because of this. Things like the drawings in Skyward Sword were infuriating to complete as a result.
Regardless, I think emulating motion plus is important to the Dolphin project, if only as a side project or add-on. Or at least the efforts should be preserved. Inaccuracies aside, the fact this works at all, to the point of being able to complete games built around the gimmick, is a miracle and quite impressive.
@pseudo2018-000
I got these profiles and setup, initially, from a YouTube video with [sketchy but clean] download links (of which I obsessively scanned with VirusTotal, local Malwarebytes, ESET, and Defender). I don't think I really modified anything - the combo setup of these controls and how to go about changing things was not something I wanted to invest time in. The fact I completed the drawings was simply dumb luck, I think. It worked, and I beat the game and enjoyed it regardless of the drawing issues. Flying, once I figured out the implementation, was pretty dang easy - had no issues with it.