Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

As the title says, 3D Vision is now worse than before (at least in my opinion):

- Maximum convergence is too low in the GUI slider.
- 3D Vision convergence and separation hotkeys affect the games in a weird way (HUD and shadows are displaced sideways). Besides, I can't save a "centered" profile correctly, it resets when I press the correct keys (this is Nvidia's fault probably, because it happens to me in some PC games).
- Sometimes 3D doesn't trigger. It seems random, but most of the time it doesn't work the first time I boot a game after opening Dolphin.
- GPU usage seems higher. I remember getting more than fullspeed in Zelda TP at 3xIR in Kakariko and Hyrule Field. Now I get between 23 and 25 fps. Lowering resolution to 2xIR helps, but it's too low res   .

Good points:

- Separation and convergence can be changed in the .ini files. Using 125 separation and 2500 convergence are perfect (for me) for both Zelda games.
- It's good to see new options in the GUI.
- Having many stereoscopic modes is useful for people with different 3D displays.

It was working better for me before these changes. If 3D was enabled in the Nvidia Control Panel, games started in 3D automatically, and I could adjust convergence and separation the way I wanted.

Questions:
- Is this going to be this way from now on?
- Is there a way to use the old 3D method that I prefer?

It sounds like your problems may be NVIDIA issues? I'm having no problems with 3D Vision.

If you're using 3D Vision and don't want to interface with Dolphin, you turn off 3D in Dolphin and let NVIDIA do its thing. In games like Luigi's Mansion, where Dolphin does better than 3D Vision, you'll want to turn on stereo 3D in Dolphin, and then select NVIDIA 3D there. I don't know if you're having any problems with that (you sound like an experienced user, and this post is well put together) but I figured I'd throw it out there in case it could help at all.

(12-26-2014, 04:58 AM)JMC47 Wrote: [ -> ]If you're using 3D Vision and don't want to interface with Dolphin, you turn off 3D in Dolphin and let NVIDIA do its thing.  In games like Luigi's Mansion, where Dolphin does better than 3D Vision, you'll want to turn on stereo 3D in Dolphin, and then select NVIDIA 3D there.  I don't know if you're having any problems with that (you sound like an experienced user, and this post is well put together) but I figured I'd throw it out there in case it could help at all.

I don't know if it's a drivers thing. I have the 344.60 version. I should download the new one just in case, tomorrow maybe.

Disabling 3D in Dolphin and just using it as I always did works but with some strange glitches. See how convergence affects HUD elements (rename screenshots to .jps to see them in 3D):

Tweaking convergence so the HUD is at screen depth makes everything else flat (minimal if not zero convergence).
This is how it looks when I increase convergence. HUD starts going near my face, so it goes more and more to the sides. Link's shadow is moving!
And now the HUD is completely gone at the convergence I usually use. Look at Link's missing shadow.
For comparison, this is how it looked previously (sorry for shit quality. I took it before enabling .pns screenshots again after a driver update).
It can look like that with the 3D options in Dolphin, but with a big performance decrease.

Zelda Wind Waker behaves in a very similar way (it doesn't have that weird bloom effect while the HUD is half-removed), Mario Sunshine is also similar and Smash Bros. Melee's player icons in battle (1P, 2P, etc) also go away.

Long time no see those black ground textures. It reminded me of the old r1XXX days  . It's also related to convergence: at low levels, the ground looks normal.

3D triggers randomly too with 3D disabled in Dolphin.

Edit: anyway, I understand these are development builds and that it's normal for things to break or change. I'm not mad or anything, just making notice of how 3D changed.

Thanks for the concrete examples. I'll be sure to try this and see what's going on.

Thanks for the feedback, I already noticed that the convergence slider needed a large boost, this build should fix that: http://dl.dolphin-emu.org/prs/pr-1766-do...est-x64.7z

I'm not sure yet about the depth slider though, maybe I'll increase the limit on that one too if 100 is really too low.

I'll look into your problems with Nvidia 3D Vision without Dolphin's stereoscopy support.

Also, the black ground is an unrelated bug that was fixed a few weeks ago, make sure you're running the latest build.

(12-26-2014, 05:59 PM)Armada Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the feedback, I already noticed that the convergence slider needed a large boost, this build should fix that: http://dl.dolphin-emu.org/prs/pr-1766-do...est-x64.7z

After deleting gfx_dx11.ini, the convergence limit is still 500 in the slider, and now it ignores the 2500 tweak (maybe it gets the value from the slider instead of the .ini).

(12-26-2014, 05:59 PM)Armada Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure yet about the depth slider though, maybe I'll increase the limit on that one too if 100 is really too low.

Nah, I think that 100 resembles correctly the maximum setting of 3D Vision. I just wanted to try it a bit over the limit   . For example, between 150 and 200 it's really hard to focus on things that are far away. Separation is too high for humans   .

(12-26-2014, 05:59 PM)Armada Wrote: [ -> ]I'll look into your problems with Nvidia 3D Vision without Dolphin's stereoscopy support.

Thank you very much.
About the ground thing, it was just a glitch due to the disabled 3D in Dolphin, the same as the shadows in the Zelda games. I was using the 4.0-4808 build.
By the way, I tested the fps difference when loading a save in Kakariko Village. I appeared in the fountain, and then I moved the camera to see the village. Results at 3xIR and Insaneslug's texture pack:
- With the normal 3D Vision (disabled in Dolphin): 49fps
- With Dolphin 3D Vision: 27fps

Pretty big jump in GPU usage.

(12-26-2014, 07:00 PM)masterotaku Wrote: [ -> ]After deleting gfx_dx11.ini, the convergence limit is still 500 in the slider, and now it ignores the 2500 tweak (maybe it gets the value from the slider instead of the .ini).

The value limit didn't actually change, I just reduced the granularity, so 250 in the new build is the same as 2500 in the old one. The slider goes up to 500 in both builds.

About the GPU usage, this is because we are emulating 3D accurately within our code base and we can't take any of the shortcuts that Nvidia 3D Vision takes. Nvidia 3D Vision uses heuristics and is basically hacking in 3D support while Dolphin itself tries to accurately support it within its own architecture. And as we know, accuracy costs performance.

(12-26-2014, 07:00 PM)masterotaku Wrote: [ -> ]About the ground thing, it was just a glitch due to the disabled 3D in Dolphin, the same as the shadows in the Zelda games. I was using the 4.0-4808 build.

The build I sent you changes nothing in the 3D support from 4.0-4808, enabling the settings and changing the convergence granularity can't affect those glitches. I think you were just running an old build, I've seen the issues you mention in old builds before.

We eventually found the problem and it had nothing to do with our stereoscopic 3D code. Nvidia 3D Vision broke down due to a completely unrelated change introduced in build 4.0-4480 (stereoscopic 3D wasn't introduced until 4.0-4643)

We've made a build that disables that hack when using the Nvidia 3D Vision option in Dolphin: http://dl.dolphin-emu.org/prs/pr-1787-do...est-x64.7z

However since we have no way of knowing whether 3D Vision is currently active we can't disable the hack when stereoscopic 3D is turned off.