(09-04-2014, 03:50 AM)KHg8m3r Wrote: [ -> ]The OS handles the function calls from the games to the hardware. A dev just programs a call for the OS to pull in the relevant data, and then they manipulate that. If the OS was purged from memory, then including the OS on each game really ups the chance of a bad game with a broken OS, rendering the game totally useless, where if the game doesn't contain the OS and has a bad write, it could still run, but maybe with a glitch here or there.
You obviously have no idea how GC and wii games work.
If a dev that knows how GC/Wii OS works backs you up, then by all means, I will eat face.
But the whole idea of storing an entire API library of all the hardware calls ever needed AND the OS to run them on a game disk is a truly stupid thing to do. I haven't seen any evidence for it in the games, there's nothing on the internet when I try and look it up, and as a business move on Nintendo's part its a horrible idea. Give each dev a full OS to play with? No thanks. If they do something wrong to that OS, it could brick consoles.
I sense that you're still not understanding the whole "there is no OS" concept.
I shall now eat face. I had the Wii IOS firmware stuck in my head when I was thinking of operating systems.
After reading up more on it, Wii and GameCube games do run directly on the Flipper or Broadway processor, but on the Wii there is a separate ARM chip inside the Wii to control Wii hardware separate from the GameCube hardware. Whenever a game is loaded, it queries the specific IOS firmware each game is coded to use to talk with the ARM chip, and there is also one when using GameCube mode, which runs in the background but doesn't output anything from the screen.
So you're right when you said that games run directly on the CPU
(09-04-2014, 03:33 AM)tueidj Wrote: [ -> ]The wii CPU has been shrunk a couple of times through its lifetime, do you think they also added new instructions to it?
Huh. I thought Nintendo is very reluctant to make drastic changes to hardware. I thought they just changed CPU package once in Wii. Do you have photos without heatspreader for shrunk chips?
(09-04-2014, 04:06 AM)KHg8m3r Wrote: [ -> ]If a dev that knows how GC/Wii OS works backs you up, then by all means, I will eat face.
Get to it then, because he's totally right. There's no OS on gc or wii. I'd recommend listening to what tueidj says about wii/gc, he knows a lot about them.
(09-04-2014, 06:07 AM)RachelB Wrote: [ -> ] (09-04-2014, 04:06 AM)KHg8m3r Wrote: [ -> ]If a dev that knows how GC/Wii OS works backs you up, then by all means, I will eat face.
Get to it then, because he's totally right. There's no OS on gc or wii. I'd recommend listening to what tueidj says about wii/gc, he knows a lot about them.
(09-04-2014, 04:48 AM)KHg8m3r Wrote: [ -> ]I shall now eat face. I had the Wii IOS firmware stuck in my head when I was thinking of operating systems.
...
So you're right when you said that games run directly on the CPU
Already did.
(09-04-2014, 05:55 AM)Rikimaru Wrote: [ -> ] (09-04-2014, 03:33 AM)tueidj Wrote: [ -> ]The wii CPU has been shrunk a couple of times through its lifetime, do you think they also added new instructions to it?
Huh. I thought Nintendo is very reluctant to make drastic changes to hardware. I thought they just changed CPU package once in Wii. Do you have photos without heatspreader for shrunk chips?
Shrinking the CPU isn't so hard, its just manufacturing the same CPU using smaller transistors inside. The Sony did the same to the Cell microprocessor in PS3, and Microsoft to the Xenon in the 360.
As for pics:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47873023&postcount=205
Having to deal with a tri-core setup on the Wii U expresso, wouldn't that need new instructons to deal with the tri-core setup?
(09-04-2014, 03:33 AM)tueidj Wrote: [ -> ]The main difference between gekko and broadway are more BAT registers (4->8), used to handle memory translation. They were used to map the wii's new MEM2 region.
There were other differences like being able to prefetch data in larger sized chunks, but these features weren't used by the wii.
The differences between espresso and broadway are a bit more extensive (mainly due to the new cores and variable L2 configurations) but from an application's point-of-view there's no real difference.
Eh? When you say L2 I think of CPU cache. *VARIABLE* L2 cache? I have never heard of this before.
I assume the die shrinks reduce power usage? I though the electrons didn't have to travel as far on smaller die/process? is this too small to show up in software?
Also i'm having a hard time with the forums, the emoticon don't work when i click them and the quotes are big mess, i have to manipulate the BB code my self.
(09-04-2014, 09:55 AM)cdoublejj Wrote: [ -> ] (09-04-2014, 03:33 AM)tueidj Wrote: [ -> ]The main difference between gekko and broadway are more BAT registers (4->8), used to handle memory translation. They were used to map the wii's new MEM2 region.
There were other differences like being able to prefetch data in larger sized chunks, but these features weren't used by the wii.
The differences between espresso and broadway are a bit more extensive (mainly due to the new cores and variable L2 configurations) but from an application's point-of-view there's no real difference.
Eh? When you say L2 I think of CPU cache. *VARIABLE* L2 cache? I have never heard of this before.
I assume the die shrinks reduce power usage? I though the electrons didn't have to travel as far on smaller die/process? is this too small to show up in software?
Also i'm having a hard time with the forums, the emoticon don't work when i click them and the quotes are big mess, i have to manipulate the BB code my self.
Yes, die shrinks reduce power usage.
I just use : P
or : )
or : (
(09-04-2014, 07:56 AM)KHg8m3r Wrote: [ -> ]Shrinking the CPU isn't so hard, its just manufacturing the same CPU using smaller transistors inside. The Sony did the same to the Cell microprocessor in PS3, and Microsoft to the Xenon in the 360.
As for pics: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47873023&postcount=205
It is not very simple. It needs sizeable investment.
Pics you provided just show smaller package, not chip die area. As I said I need pics without heatspreader.
(09-04-2014, 07:56 AM)KHg8m3r Wrote: [ -> ]Having to deal with a tri-core setup on the Wii U expresso, wouldn't that need new instructons to deal with the tri-core setup?
They added cache coherency protocol. It does not add new instructions for software to use.