Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

(05-31-2014, 02:39 AM)Shonumi Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, it's my favorite out of all the controllers Nintendo has produced

That's not really saying much, i think.

I mean, at least it's better than the n64 controller, meant for 3 handed aliens!

I was going to mention something along the lines of what Shonumi had mentioned, but I figured the PSX controllers have been around longer anyway.
imo, I find the psx controllers hurt my hands after a while. I very much like the 360 controller though. It feels great and has all the buttons. I don't actually have a 360 nor do I really need one, I just like the usb controller :b

Despite my bias opinion on the psx controllers, something that should be mentioned is the PS4 controllers are backwards compatible with PS3 which I thought was pretty okay. Apparently they're nicer to hold, I haven't tried one yet. They're also apparently good for plugin'play for pc.

Gamecube controllers have always been the most comfortable. If the analogs clicked like buttons and there was a second Z button above L (like M or whatever it was on the strange GC controllers), I would be set.

Um.. reading the info on the power consumption, I'd like to guess that one usb hub would not be enough for 4 ngc controllers vibrating all at the same time. I'm probably wrong- I may have just missed something :o

Also- those lovely wireless Wavebird controllers. If the plugin hardware is all the same, they'd work just fine which is sweet.

GC Nostalgia Leaks out again! Gamecube is not dead because it lives on through the Wii U!

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Oh also what I said wasn't relevant

(05-31-2014, 06:35 AM)RachelB Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-31-2014, 02:39 AM)Shonumi Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, it's my favorite out of all the controllers Nintendo has produced

That's not really saying much, i think.

I mean, at least it's better than the n64 controller, meant for 3 handed aliens!

So, what, are like all of Nintendo's controllers more or less subpar to okay-ish then? Is that what you're saying? :p

The N64 was the low-point in controller design, no doubt. I still can't figure out how I played FPS games on that thing. But as far as controller design, I really can't stand the Wii U Pro (the damn joyticks are in the wrong place Nintendo!) and the grip looks wider than I'd like it to be. The Classic controller needs to have the joysticks slightly lower (like PSX style, which is what I'd ideally use forever) and that's my biggest ding against it.

But how does 3 generations not say a lot about a controller's design and integrity? I mean sure the PSX and XBOX style controllers haven't changed much, but Nintendo is essentially not changing anything here (original GC controllers are supported on the Wii U with this).

split between gc and 360.
Don't think I'm going to get another adapter soon (already have not-so-great Mayflash 3-in-1 magic "joy" box.
Does anyone know for sure if it even works on PCs or not?

(also do I really want to say why my IP address is different from normal?)

(05-31-2014, 06:40 AM)Quicklime_Mistress Wrote: [ -> ]I was going to mention something along the lines of what Shonumi had mentioned, but I figured the PSX controllers have been around longer anyway.
imo, I find the psx controllers hurt my hands after a while. I very much like the 360 controller though. It feels great and has all the buttons. I don't actually have a 360 nor do I really need one, I just like the usb controller :b

Despite my bias opinion on the psx controllers, something that should be mentioned is the PS4 controllers are backwards compatible with PS3 which I thought was pretty okay. Apparently they're nicer to hold, I haven't tried one yet. They're also apparently good for plugin'play for pc.

Gamecube controllers have always been the most comfortable. If the analogs clicked like buttons and there was a second Z button above L (like M or whatever it was on the strange GC controllers), I would be set.

Um.. reading the info on the power consumption, I'd like to guess that one usb hub would not be enough for 4 ngc controllers vibrating all at the same time. I'm probably wrong- I may have just missed something :o

Also- those lovely wireless Wavebird controllers. If the plugin hardware is all the same, they'd work just fine which is sweet.

When the motor initially turns it could pull 200ma or more but that is just a short bursts. If all controllers start at the same time ( technically impossible ) it could pull too much current. Once they are turning and the initial bust is done they may pull 100ma at max. One usb port at 500ma will take that. If 3 are turning ( 100 * 3 ) and one is starting ( 200 ) you still have enough current but just enough. My guess is that is why Nintendo did that. Since each controller data "poll" is done consecutively there is no way all controllers will turn motors at once. The way I make it work is with an internal hub. There is enough resistance in that hub to allow constant rumble for all 4 controllers. So again, Nintendo would not install a hub, I'm sure... as to why they did that, just to be on the safe side.

Shonumi Wrote:The N64 was the low-point in controller design, no doubt. I still can't figure out how I played FPS games on that thing.

Oh come on. People give way too much hate on the N64 controller. The only mistake Nintendo made was the 3 prong design. ....and the joystick degradation, but it was brand new technology so it is understandable. The 3 prong design was because Nintendo hesitated. Miyamoto pushing for crazy new tech and they were worried it wouldn't catch on. That happens a lot in Nintendo.

Anyway, think about it. The N64 controller is comfortable. It was the first with full ergonomics. And unlike the PS1 controller of the time, it handled 3D exceptionally. Doesn't anyone remember the D-pad plus shoulder button shenanigans that the PS1 controller required before the Dual Analog/Dual Shock? It was awful. Tank controls anyone? The N64 controller pioneered how we play 3D games today. EVERY game that involves 3D can be traced back to Mario 64 and that weird 3 prong controller. We owe a lot to that quirky thing.

Admittedly the N64 controller had some growing pains, but it pioneered the conventions of gaming for games decades since. And one thing is for sure, it was NOT the low point of controller design. You guys need to learn more about console history.





There are some really awful controllers out there.

(05-31-2014, 12:34 PM)ulao Wrote: [ -> ]When the motor initially turns it could pull 200ma or more but that is just a short bursts. If all controllers start at the same time ( technically impossible ) it could pull too much current. Once they are turning and the initial bust is done they may pull 100ma at max. One usb port at 500ma will take that. If 3 are turning ( 100 * 3 ) and one is starting ( 200 ) you still have enough current but just enough. My guess is that is why Nintendo did that. Since each controller data "poll" is done consecutively there is no way all controllers will turn motors at once. The way I make it work is with an internal hub. There is enough resistance in that hub to allow constant rumble for all 4 controllers. So again, Nintendo would not install a hub, I'm sure... as to why they did that, just to be on the safe side.

Wow, awesome, okay.
Yeah my second guess would have been 'nintendo uses two usb ports just to stay on the safe side'.
Neat. Thanks for breaking that down :)

@MaJoR - I was talking about a low point for Nintendo specifically, not controllers in general. The second one (of Nintendo's :p) would be the Virtual Boy's in my book. Predates the prong-like designs of the N64, but it's totally unnecessary. Also, it's one of the few official 1st party controllers that actually has two d-pads (okay... dunno how that happened).

MaJoR Wrote:it handled 3D exceptionally.

Not FPS games. Perfect Dark and Golden Eye are certainly playable using C buttons to move and your left thumb to aim with the joystick (I'm ambidextrous, so left or right doesn't really bother me), and the Z trigger even feels like a real gun trigger. But the joystick is, how to describe this, it feels "creaky" (and not because my controllers are old, I vividly remember experiencing the difference between TimeSplitters 2 on the GC, it was night and day). It wasn't ever as flexible as I needed it to be. This always made aiming a chore, which sucks when your friends always play "one hit kills matches", or even the campaign on higher difficulties. Perfect Dark is simply a vastly superior experience using my Logictech Dual Action joystick in Mupen64Plus.

MaJoR Wrote:EVERY game that involves 3D can be traced back to Mario 64 and that weird 3 prong controller

Thank goodness we don't use the same camera system. Revolutionary as it was for its time, I think the C buttons really limited what the developers implemented, unlike many modern camera systems that use a secondary joystick to rotate freely around in third-person perspective.

Shonumi Wrote:I was talking about a low point for Nintendo specifically, not controllers in general.

That's not fair. The N64 is vital in the evolution of controllers. Of course better designs have come since. I'm not saying it's the best controller ever. But just like the NES and SNES before it, everything after the N64 controller was completely different. Dual analog created another revolution almost immediately after it, admittedly, but 3 out of 4 gamepad revolutions isn't a bad job for Nintendo.

And yea, FPS games benefit from Dual Analog. But Dual Analog came before the first person shooter use for it. Dual analog did not have that in mind when it was made. Someone at Sony saw the N64 controller and thought "Hey, if we made TWO analog sticks, and put them side by side, this would work great for camera control, and we could say we're TWICE as good as their controller!" Then a developer got a hold of it while making a first person shooter and realized it's potential there you go. The N64 controller was vital to developing that next step.

And even in revolutionary designs, problems happen. The original famicom controllers had square buttons that would get stuck if you pressed on the corners. Famicom controllers were wired into the consoles despite competing consoles already having detachable controllers. On and on. Yet no one hates on the famicom controllers, the N64 controller gets it all.

"Low point in controller design". FAH! It was a revolution in controller design. From the sounds of it, you'd have preferred they just made a SNES controller and done nothing to improve the quality of gaming. It wouldn't have had any problems now would it! But that's not what design is. Design is making new things, and the N64 controller influenced everything after it. I'd call that a tremendous success of design. Sure it had problems, but almost every control revolution has had those same growing pains.

The real low point in controller designs are the images I posted. Now THOSE are bad controllers. True failures in gamepad design are obvious, really. They are deadends. No one is going to look at a fairchild F and think of how similar it is to an Xbox 360 controller. It's not, not even remotely, because the Fairchild-F is one of the worst if not the worst controller designs ever imagined, and no one has ever borrowed from it's design. The same could be said for the Phillips CDi Paddle or the Magnovox Odyssey controller (ew). The Jaguar is the least horrible in this bunch, but it's really bad; and they had no excuse for it as it came after the SNES controller and it wasn't even trying to tackle the 3D revolution.

Shonumi Wrote:The second one (of Nintendo's ) would be the Virtual Boy's in my book. Predates the prong-like designs of the N64, but it's totally unnecessary. Also, it's one of the few official 1st party controllers that actually has two d-pads (okay... dunno how that happened).

I've studied it, and read several interviews from the era. The Virtual Boy controller did need the "prongs" for a very serious reason - it had the batteries in the gamepad. It was set up that way so you could strap the virtual boy to your head if you wanted to without it getting peeled off from all that weight. In the end no one used it that way (since it was too heavy even with the battery in the gamepad) and it looks weird in hindsight, but that was why it has prongs. As for the dual analog, since the visuals were in 3D, Gunpei Yokoi wanted some sort of 3D control, and came up with what is essentially dual analog digital. He was faced with the same problem that all of the 3D game console designers faced. The PS1 used tank controls (dpad + shoulder buttons), the N64 used an analog stick, and the virtual boy used dual digital. I doubt dual digital influenced dual analog, since the hardware was such a failure and no developers ever used dual digital in that manner, but it was a genuine predecessor to dual analog, just like the original PS1 or N64 controllers.