Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

Sounds like exactly the same problem I have. But I planed on buying a soundcard anyway. I just need to decide which one and what 2.1 speaker system.

Budget?

As always with me I don't really have one...

Basically I have a 46" TV coming tomorrow, the PC I'm talking about in this thread is going to be hooked up to so I'd like to get a decent 2.1 system for that for watching movies but also to play music on too. So I'm going to need the PC's soundcard and the tv's sound output connected to the speakers.

I suppose I'm looking at a $80-$120 soundcard so speakers to match the kind of quality I'd be expecting from that. I've always liked the look of the polk speakers, plus they're super highly rated. Bookshelf speakers are usually on sale at about $120 and the sub can be on sale at $80 so $200 for the speakers. So maybe my budget would be $300. But I haven't even thought about amps, preamps and receivers.... or even know whether I need any of those 3 things.

Can I safely assume that nothing else will be hooked up to the TV or speakers?

As in PC->TV/Speakers

Well if there is anything else it'll be connected to the tv via HDMI, not directly to the speakers. But yeah the PS3, but I think that might be it.

In an ideal setup it would just be:
audio card->TRS cables->amplifier->speakers
video card->HDMI cable->HDTV

This would give you the best possible quality for the lowest price. The audio card would act as your dsp, dac, and preamp. Problem is no other device can use your audio card.

I suppose the best possible solution with the PS3 included would be to use the above and:
PS3->HDMI->HDTV->amplifier->speakers

Most amplifiers have at least 2 inputs. With this system your PS3 would be at the mercy of your TV DAC for quality (I don't think you care so much about this) and you would have to switch the input on both your TV and amp whenever you switched between PC/PS3. Is that acceptable?

Your other options are an A/V receiver, an external dac, preamp, or pre/pro.

Preamps provide line level analog input and line level analog output (but with input switching, volume leveling, etc.). External dacs provide uncompressed digital input and line level analog output (they just convert a digital input to analog). Pre/pro combine a dsp, dac, and preamp into one device. Inputs include uncompressed digital, compressed digital, and line level analog. Outputs include all three as well. A/V receivers combine a pre/pro with a power amplifier to provide speaker level analog output and a bunch of other shit that you will probably never use. And audio cards are basically pre/pros that can be inserted directly into a computer and communicate with it via drivers.

A/V receivers provide the entire audio system in one box. Nice and convenient. But they offer less bang for your buck quality wise. You're paying for lots of components, many of which you don't need. And since they're all jammed together in one box EMI causing distortion/noise between the different components is an issue without very elaborate shielding (which only high end models have). Problem is the midrange preamps, pre/pros, and dacs have been driven out of the market by cheap convenient A/V receivers that trade quality for features and convenience. So much so that audio enthusiasts often purchase a/v receivers and configure them as pre/pros since there are no pre/pros in the midrange pricerange. And unless you spend the big bucks receiver sound quality tends to suck. So you end up in a "go big, go small, or go home" situation no matter what since consumers are idiots and have shifted the market in the wrong direction. Audio cards are the only real way to get a good pre/pro for cheap these days since there is still a market for it but of course they only work with PCs. And audio only receivers don't even exist anymore.

Ultimately you need all of the above in some form. Compressed digital audio source or signal -> DSP or software -> uncompressed digital signal -> DAC -> analog line level signal -> preamp -> power amp -> analog speaker level signal -> speakers -> sound

The only differences here are which components in the chain are in seperate boxes/devices or together in one box/device. So basicly the level of integration in the system. As integration goes down (by using separate parts) maximum quality goes up but cost efficiency goes down.

The advantage of buying a good a/v receiver is that you can enjoy the benefits of it on any device you hook up to it. Including your ps3 and pc. It also saves a lot of space and greatly simplifies setup.

(03-15-2014, 04:25 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't do anything. *shrugs* Sure why not, your welcome.

You spent about 10 minutes of your time answering my questions, freaked JT out with the quotes, and even had to listen to my setup which made you scream. =P

And the cable won't be in use as soon as I get my sound card.

EDIT: I was also looking at a good headset, and I found this... It looks great for my needs - low to mid range headset with good (not amazing super professional) sound quality and very comfortable (I own the 380 right now, so I can be sure of that).

And yet, it seems to have a USB connector. How will that work with the sound card I'm getting? I assume I could disable on-board audio, would that make the headphones work through the sound card even through they are USB? I'm sorry if I am being dumb, but I'm not exactly very knowledgeable about sound systems...

(And yes, I know my sound card is only 5.1 and the headset is supposedly 7.1, but I don't care. Um, it should work anyway, right?)

Thanks for the very detailed post as always. Now that I will have a pc connected to the living room PC, the ps3 will become redundant. So I can just use the TV's DAC, that's not a problem. I don't even mind switching either as I game very rarely on it.

I suppose the 'ideal setup' you started your post off with would be the best option. Seems like I'm going to get more bang for my buck that way too.

Is it actually possible to set this up without an amplifier? Using a splitter so that the speakers are connected to the TV and the soundcard at the same time? Or do I have to use an amplifier because the speakers are not powered externally?

If no, what kind of amp would you recommend that would maintain the quality of a ~$100 soundcard and ~$200 2.1 speaker system?

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(03-15-2014, 07:00 AM)teh_speleegn_polease Wrote: [ -> ]And yet, it seems to have a USB connector. How will that work with the sound card I'm getting? I assume I could disable on-board audio, would that make the headphones work through the sound card even through they are USB? I'm sorry if I am being dumb, but I'm not exactly very knowledgeable about sound systems...

If you have a sound card the sound devices need to be plugged into that. A usb headset will use the intergrated sound. (As far as I know).

(03-15-2014, 07:21 AM)JT! Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-15-2014, 07:00 AM)teh_speleegn_polease Wrote: [ -> ]And yet, it seems to have a USB connector. How will that work with the sound card I'm getting? I assume I could disable on-board audio, would that make the headphones work through the sound card even through they are USB? I'm sorry if I am being dumb, but I'm not exactly very knowledgeable about sound systems...

If you have a sound card the sound devices need to be plugged into that. A usb headset will use the intergrated sound. (As far as I know).

That's what I was thinking, but the reviews state that it has awesome sound, and it's supposed to be rather mid-range more than low-end... Which makes me wonder why would they restrict it to ionboard sound.

teh_speleegn_polease Wrote:And the cable won't be in use as soon as I get my sound card.

Honestly it probably won't make any difference at all what cable you use. TRS cables, including cheap unshielded variants with high gauge nickel/copper alloy wires are perfectly suitable for carrying analog audio at line level so long as the distance is 10m (30 ft.) or less and there are no high power electronics near the cables (amplifiers mainly). It's why they're still around after decades. Cabling is one area where people often overspend based on nonsense marketing. Have a read of a study confirming something that SHOULD be obvious to most people, but apparently isn't: http://consumerist.com/2008/03/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables/

teh_speleegn_polease Wrote:And yet, it seems to have a USB connector. How will that work with the sound card I'm getting?

It wouldn't. How are you suppose to get audio from the audio cards analog circuits to your headphone without plugging the headphone into the card?

Hitler Wrote:A usb headset will use the intergrated sound. (As far as I know).

Not quite. It will use its own internal system. All usb audio devices have their own analog audio system that they use internally. They have to. USB is entirely digital and is not connected to the audio subsystem in any way. USB speakers, headphones, and headsets have a built in DAC and headphone amp that they use. The computers generic audio drivers (or specialized 3rd party drivers that some device manufacturers provide) send uncompressed digital audio over the usb bus to the device. The device then internally converts it to analog using its DAC then amplifies it (again internally) before playing it through the speaker cones. As you can imagine these systems have to be very small to fit inside the device so they tend to be pretty poor quality.

Want proof? Disable all audio chipsets on your computer then plug in a usb headset. It will work just fine.

teh_speleegn_polease Wrote:That's what I was thinking, but the reviews state that it has awesome sound, and it's supposed to be rather mid-range more than low-end...

Statements like "good sound" or "awesome sound" are entirely subjective. Good compared to what? For people used to using equipment that costs thousands of dollars a $200 headset will probably sound like crap to them. For someone who has never used a headphone over $50 it will probably be the most amazing thing they have ever heard.

This is why I prefer to simply compare products with alternatives in their price range. "Good compared to other $40-60 headsets" is something you can at least argue objectively. Saying speakers/headphones are "good" is like saying a game is "fun". To you maybe, but you certainty can't argue that point much further.

Also most of these people probably don't use audio cards.

teh_speleegn_polease Wrote:Which makes me wonder why would they restrict it to ionboard sound.

1. Because they expect most users to not have a sound card (99% of their userbase). By having a built in system they can effectively bypass the integrated audio system in the computer (which is often even crappier, especially with laptops) thus improving sound quality.
2. Because they can provide surround sound on any system this way (most laptops only have stereo analog output).
3. Because they can provide virtual surround and other driver features over usb that might not be supported by the integrated audio system.

Headphones with surround sound are now the latest marketing craze. Even though the surround quality is usually crap. Don't buy a usb microphone, headset, headphone, speakers, etc. if you plan on using an audio card. Give me a budget and I'll give you some recommendations for good TRS headsets in that price range. Personally I prefer to use headphones and mod them with clip on boom mics since it gives you a lot more options to choose from and can often get you better bang for your buck. But that's up to you.

Hitler Wrote:Is it actually possible to set this up without an amplifier?

Yes and no. It's technically impossible to have a functioning speaker without some sort of amplification. However you can buy active speakers instead of passive speakers to avoid buying an amp. Active speakers are speakers that have amps built in so they can be hooked directly to an audio card, dac, pre/pro, or preamp without an amp. Since the amps are calibrated to those specific speaker drivers they can often deliver better audio quality. But they're less cost effective in the long run or if you plan on running many speakers for surround sound. Active speakers cost more (obviously) and of course when it's time to buy new speakers you can't transfer the amp over to the new set so you're basically buying new amps every time you buy new active speakers. And you can't share the amps among multiple speakers like you can with a standalone amp (or bi-amp). There are also a lot less active speakers on the market so buying the speakers and amp separately gives you more options.

Hitler Wrote:Using a splitter so that the speakers are connected to the TV and the soundcard at the same time? Or do I have to use an amplifier because the speakers are not powered externally?

Not entirely sure I'm understanding you correctly. Using a splitter to connect both the TV and soundcard to the speakers makes no sense. Splitters split, they don't merge. They're one way and trying to wire them in reverse is a really bad idea.

As for question two, see above.

Hitler Wrote:If no, what kind of amp would you recommend that would maintain the quality of a ~$100 soundcard and ~$200 2.1 speaker system?

All amps degrade audio quality. Any time an audio signal travels through any electronics the signal gains some distortion/noise from the flaws in those electronics. The difference between amps is in how much they degrades the signal quality. So there is no perfect solution here. Only a scale of good quality to better quality depending on how much you want to spend. I can't give you a set dollar amount because spending more will almost always give you a noticeable improvement in quality. You have to draw a line in the sand somewhere yourself based on what you want to get out of the system. As with most things in life this decision isn't as simple as it appears.