Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

(01-20-2015, 09:18 AM)kirbypuff Wrote: [ -> ]It's a (crappy) TN panel. What did you expect?

If you want a CRT-like picture [deepest blacks and high contrast] (but some ghosting and a bit of contrast shift), go for VA.
If you want the best viewing angles and average black levels (and some *really annoying* glow), go for IPS.

Unlike TN, VA and IPS have no banding issues.

Well I didn't expect it to be this bad to be honest and I kinda went in blindly on this one after recalling reading a lot of good stuff on it and it being recommended at some places.
The high refresh rate and blur reduction as said before is sublime, it's just that in general use I can't help but notice the yellow tints.

(01-20-2015, 12:28 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]IPS also has by far the best color accuracy.

To elaborate:
TN:  Lowest pixel response times (less ghosting), lowest cost, highest refresh rates, worst color, worst contrast, worst viewing angles, primarily aimed at ultra cheap or gaming monitors
VA:  Medium pixel response times, medium cost, low refresh rates, mediocre color, highest contrast, poor viewing angles, benq is the only major US brand left that still uses them and they primarily target them as lower budget gaming monitors
IPS:  Highest pixel response times, medium to high cost depending on the type and resolution, low refresh rates, best color, tied for worst contrast with TN, best viewing angles, used in a wide range of monitors, typically not used in "gaming monitors" due to low refresh rates and high pixel response times

There are many other factors to consider, this is just a quick overview.  Also light bleed depends more on the backlighting and construction than the panel type.  

Everything you describe is normal for a TN of this class Garteal.  If you're ok with 60Hz 1080p I would strongly recommend an IPS.  1440p/2160p 120Hz IPS panels are still a few years away from mainstream adoption.

Thanks for the summary.
I feared as such. Going back to 60hz feels so horrible though, but I'm open to any IPS suggestion you might have. I've looked around and I couldn't really pick one due to being indecisive so if anyone has experience or knowledge about good ones, please share them.

(01-21-2015, 01:33 AM)teh_speleegn_polease Wrote: [ -> ]I'm by no means an artist, so I never paid too much attention to the colours of my panel, but I can definitely say that there's no obvious tint or other discolouration. At the very least, if there is, then it's consistent across the whole panel and I've gotten used to it - although I don't remember noticing anything when I first got it, either.

That said, you've probably already discovered that the factory settings are god-damned fucking awful (and that's almost an understatement). If you want I could post the config I use, see if maybe that helps (unless you've already messed with the options enough to rule out wonky settings).

If I were you, Garteal, I'd try getting a replacement to see if it's any better. Regarding panel types, personally I'm completely fine with my TN one, especially since I use it mostly for gaming. Also, I'm never going back to 60Hz. But if you do a lot of colour-sensitive work, or just care about that more than the refresh rate and 3D, then TN probably isn't for you.

(By the way, why do people make a big deal out of viewing angles? I could possibly understand that you might watch a TV at an angle, but if it's a PC monitor you'll be sitting literally right in front of it. My monitor could have a 20-degree viewing angle threshold for all I care.)

Well I'm sitting right infront of my monitor with it being almost at a 90 degrees angle and the only way I can get "rid" of the yellow-ish tints is to move my head up and look downwards the screen. And indeed, the out of the box settings are terrible and that even is an understatement. I've done some tweaking here and there and have gotten an ICC profile which REALLY helped but go ahead and post your config so I can try that one out.

I've moved from a VS247H-P and while that wasn't perfect it didn't have any of this tinting.

(01-21-2015, 03:14 AM)Garteal Wrote: [ -> ]Going back to 60hz feels so horrible though

Ikr? Nobody ever takes 120+Hz seriously at first, until they actually try it out. Then they never want to go back.

(01-21-2015, 03:14 AM)Garteal Wrote: [ -> ]Well I'm sitting right infront of my monitor with it being almost at a 90 degrees angle and the only way I can get "rid" of the yellow-ish tints is to move my head up and look downwards the screen. And indeed, the out of the box settings are terrible and that even is an understatement. I've done some tweaking here and there and have gotten an ICC profile which REALLY helped but go ahead and post your config so I can try that one out.

I've moved from a VS247H-P and while that wasn't perfect it didn't have any of this tinting.

It'd really try getting a replacement, mine is almost definitely nowhere near that bad.

My settings:

It's modified from a config recommended in an amazon review, which I can't find now. Though as I said earlier, I don't really care too much about true colours or anything, so as long as what I'm seeing looks fine, I'm happy.

Thanks, unfortunately due to the top-left side being darker than the other parts, its actually a bit distracting. Plus I'd really like to keep the blur reduction there for when I need it. I run standard mode.

I found an image that someone made on the yellow tint (and the darker top) and it kinda looks like this. The circles are where my eyes are as well.

When I can get a really good 4K, 120+Hz OLED display for £150, then I'll be happy. I know it won't be hard to get something much nicer than what I currently have, but people keep complaining about whichever things I could buy (that aren't especially expensive). Plus, by the time my monitor requirements are met, GPUs able to handle that kind of display will also be cheap.

I'm still waiting for my 4k, 144Hz tri-monitor setup with full 120Hz 3D support. For under £500 preferably.

Since this is a talk about (BenQ) PC monitors, let's compare the image quality of current high-quality digital (DVI/HDMI/DP) BenQ monitors. I had a chance to test and compare several BenQ monitors with different display panel technologies.
I also included an old, extremely cheap analog BenQ TN monitor (with VGA input), just for fun.


* Old BenQ with analog input: Impressive (!) image quality for a TN panel: Decent black levels (amazing !), decent colors out of the box, no banding issues (am I dreaming?) and wait... crystal-clear image with the VGA input (same quality as DVI/HDMI !) Uses a cheap 6-bit panel + active dithering, but looks and feels like a true 8-bit panel. But it's still a TN, so it has color shift issues when viewed from above/below and inverted colors when viewed at extreme vertical angles.

* Modern BenQ monitor with TN panel: What the...!? Is this really a BenQ? Black levels are a joke, washed-out colors, banding issues, ugly tinting and even worse viewing angles than the old TN.

* Modern BenQ monitor with VA panel: Finally something decent. Much better viewing angles than the old analog TN monitor. You can look from above without the image turning into an inverted mess and you can finally watch YouTube/videos while relaxing on your bed. Colors and contrast are better than the old TN (the one with decent image quality), but it's not a *huge* difference (I expected more from a true 8-bit panel vs. a cheap 6-bit). Since it's a VA panel, it has contrast shifts, but no color shift or tinting like the TN.

* Modern BenQ monitor with IPS panel: Great viewing angles and finally no contrast shifts, but the piss-poor black levels and the *annoying* IPS glow will make you scream.


So I thought the moden BenQ with a VA panel was a decent compromise and a nice "all-rounder" / general-purpose monitor... until I compared it to a FullHD HDTV with a VA panel. The difference was striking !

The contrast / black levels on that TV were jaw-dropping. At least an order of magnitude better than the VA monitor. Really deep blacks (pitch-black) and the colors just popped out. The BenQ VA monitor looked like a cheap toy with washed-out colors and completely black backgrounds were displayed as light grey instead of black.

Once you experience this, you'll never want to buy a PC monitor again.

And finally, the LG OLED TV... that thing is "out of this world". It's like having a display with the best features of VA, TN and IPS and none of the drawbacks.

Awesome, do you possibly recall the (exact) models of them? I personally had nothing but trouble with LG. Two monitors died and then I got my Asus monitor which is being used by someone else now and now a BenQ which really bothers me. I've just worked on a Iiyama monitor (didn't get to check the model, but it's one of the old 1680x1050 ones) and that one "looked" better than the BenQ.

I'm going to return this BenQ tomorrow and won't be looking at one anytime soon. I've ordered a U2414H which should arrive in a couple of hours (already Wednesday here) and I will do a comparison first before I pack up the BenQ again.

kirbypuff Wrote:Once you experience this, you'll never want to buy a PC monitor again.

Modern BenQ monitors are aimed solely at gaming.  That includes most of their TN, VA, and IPS lineup.  They use panels that are optimized for the lowest possible pixel response times within their given type.  To lower pixel response times you have to make the LC "looser fitting" (as in it moves around more freely).  Obviously the downside of that is crappier contrast and color since the monitor then has less control over subpixel light output.  The banding issues are due to their dynamic gamma adjustments which are designed to make it easier to see things in dark areas in video games.  There are many good PC monitors that will blow 90%+ of HDTVs out of the water in the areas that you find important but you won't find them from benQ.  They're also usually not as cheap as benQ.  

kirbypuff Wrote:Even better than the highest-quality CRT, I must say.

This is mathematically impossible as CRTs have a black level of absolute zero cd/cm^2

Garteal Wrote:I feared as such. Going back to 60hz feels so horrible though, but I'm open to any IPS suggestion you might have. I've looked around and I couldn't really pick one due to being indecisive so if anyone has experience or knowledge about good ones, please share them.

Asus makes some good low budget IPS.  I would also consider looking into korean overclockable 1440p IPS monitors for around $400 if you have the money.  Otherwise I would wait.  IGZO TFT technology allows 1440p/2160p IPS monitors to reach 120Hz+ refresh rates with decent response times but it's bleeding edge tech. right now so it's still expensive.

teh_speleegn_polease Wrote:AMA (I don't even remember what that is Tongue): High

It's an RTC.  It reduces pixel response time at the expense of an increase in color overshoots.  I would leave it off.  I would also turn off "Black eQualizer" and set sharpness to 0.  These enhancements usually do more harm than good.  Instant mode is a bypass setting that disables most pixel processing to reduce input lag.  If you want to actually be able to adjust the monitors settings properly then you need to turn it off.

AnyOldName3 Wrote:When I can get a really good 4K, 120+Hz OLED display for £150, then I'll be happy. I know it won't be hard to get something much nicer than what I currently have, but people keep complaining about whichever things I could buy (that aren't especially expensive). Plus, by the time my monitor requirements are met, GPUs able to handle that kind of display will also be cheap.

You'll be waiting a llllooonnnggg time.  




Well I've built the new NAS.  It came out really nice except I can't f*cking install linux on it.  I've tried centos, fedora, and mint and they all give me the same issue.  It gets to the grub bootloader then once I hit install, black screen.



This is why I hate using linux.  It fights you every step of the way everytime you try to do anything.  Maybe it's just bad luck on my part but it seems everytime I try to use linux for anything I spend so much time trying to debug issues like this that it turns basic tasks that should take minutes into multi-week long ragefests.  But since it's a server I have no choice but to use linux. Pretty much all I can tell so far is that it's an issue with the IGP and the kernel not playing nice.  Any help would be appreciated. I've tried everything I can find on google so far to no avail.

(01-21-2015, 11:20 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]This is mathematically impossible as CRTs have a black level of absolute zero cd/cm^2

CRTs may have a black level of zero, but the *screen* is not completely black (in a room with normal lighting) when the display is switched off / unplugged. It's a shade of grey. Even with an infinite contrast, a CRT monitor wll never display a true black, especially when the brightness of the monitor is set to a very low value.

On the other hand, most LCD displays are pitch-black when switched off.
If the black level is very low and the contrast high enough, the resulting image is stunning (better than any CRT).

AnyOldName3 Wrote:AMA (I don't even remember what that is Tongue): High

It's a "Pixel Overdrive" feature to reduce ghosting.
"High" is a recommended setting for BenQ monitors. The RTC errors are minimal in this mode. The "Premium" setting is what you should avoid using.
"Off" is a bad setting and not recommended.