Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

Quote:If you would map a button to a keyboard key, that would mean that as you press a key on your keyboard, a joystick input is emulated.
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It's actually the other way around.

Er... no, you got me wrong there.
That quote is of course not what JTK and the others do!
It's what happens if a tool would (!) map a button to a key, not the other way around.(I don't know for sure if there's a tool actually doing this since i have never needed this.)

Edit:
If i say, I map Joystick-axis to mouse movement, for example.
What am i talking about?
There must be some sort of convention, as it would be utterly confusing if that could mean both, either "i control a joystick-based game with my mouse" or "i make my mouse-curser move with my joystick".

Quote:Don't forget that different OSes handle input differently, so the latency might not be noticeable (hasn't been so far, maybe I'm lucky on Linux

It seems to make you very proud, but don't you forget that you're not the only Linux user out there. Long time since i used qjoypad though, since AFAIK it's not beeing worked on anymore. There are several alternatives, but so far it seems to be the same for all of them, at least so far as i tried, as always there is some overhead involved.
Then again, many people claim they don't even notice the vsync or triple-buffer-lag (which is exactly the same on Linux or any other OS, btw), so i definitely dont rely on reports of other gamers in this regard!

Gabbyjay Wrote:That quote is of course not what JTK and the others do!
It's what happens if a tool would (!) map a button to a key, not the other way around.(I don't know for sure if there's a tool actually doing this since i have never needed this.)

Your post made it seem like that's what you were saying JTK does :p Anyway like I said, when I talk about mapping a button to a key, I'm always talking about input -> output. What you described is what I call mapping a key to a button. I guess the latter would be useful for games that only accept joystick input, but like you I have not seen many programs that do it this way, aside from emulators that must simulate the emulated controls.

Also keep in mind that not every Linux distro is the same, more importantly, not every kernel used in every distro is the same. I can still honestly say that I've never had an issue with QJoypad in Desmume, Dolphin, Xonotic, or a handful of other obscure emulators. This is one of those things where your milage may vary (ymmv). It'll be an issue for some, but not everyone. Like I said, I'm lucky :p

Quote:What you describe is what I call mapping a key to a button.

Think about the physical button.
You cannot assign a physical button to anything, you can only assign an action to it!
Got it?
So it makes sense to say, i map/assign an action to a button, but it does not make sense to say i assign the button to the action.

Quote:I guess the latter would be useful for games that only accept joystick input

Yes. I can imagine several scenarios for this, including changing your keyboard-layout. But i never needed this.

Quote:I can still honestly say that I've never had an issue with QJoypad in Desmume, Dolphin, Xonotic, or a handful of other obscure emulators. This is one of those things where your milage may vary (ymmv). It'll be an issue for some, but not everyone.

Beeing happy with or not noticing any input-lag is not the same as if there is no input-lag.

I did not know myself for a long time that such a tool can cause this, until i started to compare the effects of vsync/TP to having both options off.
Only then i noticed it, as there was still input-lag with both off, so i deactivated the tool. And it was much better, especially in a games like Thunderforce, Hybris, Radiant Silvergun, R-Type and the like, where you need the D-pad and also exact movements are required.

It's also possible that there are other factors causing input-lag on top of it, so the actual percantage what the tool contributes to it may be only a small factor.

Well, my intention of posting here was just to consider this.
If you wanna be sure, just use the method of trying it i posted earlier.

Also, there can be input-lag even if the button you press is left at the default and only what another button does is changed. There are tools that still cause input-lag even on the unchanged button!

Gabbyjay Wrote:You cannot assign a physical button to anything, you can only assign an action to it!

Gabbyjay Wrote:So it makes sense to say, i map/assign an action to a button, but it does not make sense to say i assign the button to the action.

These two statements contradict one another. The first says I can only assign a physical button to an action. The second tells me it does not make sense to say I have assigned the button to an action (even though you said this is the only thing I can do with a button).

How does it not make sense to say you assign a button for a given action? When I physically press that button, it triggers the given action (keyboard simulation in this case). The signals from the joystick are captured by an external program, then the external program uses that to trigger a keyboard event. For all intents and purposes, that button is assigned to a given action then. Perhaps this is your language barrier.

Gabbyjay Wrote:Beeing happy with or not noticing any input-lag is not the same as if there is no input-lag.

And I never said that I had no input-lag whatsoever. I only said it was not noticeable.

(10-12-2013, 01:35 AM)Shonumi Wrote: [ -> ]These two statements contradict one another. The first says I can only assign a physical button to an action.

Nope, the opposite!
The first statement was:

Super Gabbyjay Wrote:You cannot assign a physical button to anything, you can only assign an action to it!

You can assign the action of a button-press to something else, but you cannot assign the physical button to something, that dont make sense.

But it might be people will find this lil discussion ridiculous meanwhile, so we should be careful not to exaggerate this.

Quote:Perhaps this is your language barrier.

Could be. As i understand it, that would be like "relocating" the physical button.
But also in english, there should be a way to express this correctly, cause if it would be the same thing, how would you know what i mean if I say, i map A to B? If it were the same, it could mean two totally different things (making all statements in forums like this pointless).

' Wrote:I never said that I had no input-lag whatsoever. I only said it was not noticeable.

I did not claim you said this, i only explained there's a difference.
And what's "not noticeable" for one person, is quite noticeable for the other.
Also, input-lag stacks up:
Take a "not noticeable" input-lag of your screen reaction time, one for the screen's lag, add another "not noticeable" lag for the wait for the vertical sync, another one for a tool like these, and you end up having a horrible reaction of your input device.

Gabbyjay Wrote:but you cannot assign the physical button to something, that dont make sense

But you can. The joystick raises an electronic signal with the hardware, which is read by the OS, telling the the OS the status of the input. Whatever action the physcial button raises is determined by whatever code is responding to it. You can assign the physical button to an action because that physical button eventually (through your OS, and eventually through other software) causes that action to occur. Again, I think this is your language barrier, because this is perfectly clear to me as a native speaker.

Gabbyjay Wrote:Could be. As i understand it, that would be like "relocating" the physical button.
But also in english, there should be a way to express this correctly, cause if it would be the same thing, how would you know what i mean if I say, i map A to B? If it were the same, it could mean two totally different things (making all statements in forums like this pointless).

Assigning a button to something either means that you are telling that button to either be that something in terms of functionality (e.g. assigning the first button on my joystick to the Space bar means pressing that button generates an equivalent function, such as jumping in FPS games) or it means you are actually telling that button to literally be that something. The latter one isn't used often in my experience, but it works just the same, hence I said this can be an ambiguous subject in English. To clarify, people can use words like "switch", "replace", if they're talking about the latter case, or specify which is input (the button or the key) and which is output.

Gabbyjay Wrote:I did not claim you said this, i only explained there's a difference.

And I never said you accused me of saying that :p I'm just stating a fact, since it might have not been clear to everyone reading this thread.

Quote:Again, I think this is your language barrier, because this is perfectly clear to me as a native speaker.

To me, this does not make any sense at all.
How do you reassign a building, for example? If you are a wedding-planner, you could say "i assign Marco's wedding to the church", meaning the church has the function of the wedding. If you said "i assign a church to Marko's wedding", wouldn't this mean the wedding would have the function of the church (which makes no sense to me at all)?
You could map the action a button does to a physical keyboard-key. But you could not map the physical button to the physical key, could you? Or, in our example, if you want to have your gamepad "l-trigger"-button perform the action of the turbo-mode, which usually the tab-button does. Then how do you say this when you don't want to express that the tab-key does now what usually the l-trigger does?

Perhaps here is the error.
Thinking about it: You got physical buttons, you got physical keys, and you got functions.
So in the statement, "i assign A to B", one has to be physical and one has to be a function, otherwise it does not appear to make sense to me.
If you say, "i map the action which usually the tab-key does to the l-trigger", it's clear. If you say, "i map the (physical) tab-key to the l-trigger" - then it dont make sense. Or "i map jumping to walking" don't appear to make sense either.

(10-12-2013, 03:18 AM)Gabbyjay Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Again, I think this is your language barrier, because this is perfectly clear to me as a native speaker.

To me, this does not make any sense at all.
How do you reassign a building, for example? If you are a wedding-planner, you could say "i assign Marco's wedding to the church", meaning the church has the function of the wedding. If you said "i assign a church to Marko's wedding", wouldn't this mean the wedding would have the function of the church (which makes no sense to me at all)?
You could map the action a button does to a physical keyboard-key. But you could not map the physical button to the physical key, could you? Or, in our example, if you want to have your gamepad "l-trigger"-button perform the action of the turbo-mode, which usually the tab-button does. Then how do you say this when you don't want to express that the tab-key does now what usually the l-trigger does?

Perhaps here is the error.
Thinking about it: You got physical buttons, you got physical keys, and you got functions.
So in the statement, "i assign A to B", one has to be physical and one has to be a function, otherwise it does not appear to make sense to me.
If you say, "i map the action which usually the tab-key does to the l-trigger", it's clear. If you say, "i map the (physical) tab-key to the l-trigger" - then it dont make sense. Or "i map jumping to walking" don't appear to make sense either.

These both mean the same thing, as the meaning of assign is context-dependent. The first sentence is "You know this wedding? It's happening in the church" and the second means "You know that Saturday in November where the church is empty? Marco's wedding is going to happen then". They both deliver the same information.

Well... english is a quite unspecific language.
At least now we know that "picking up a power converter at Toshi station" can have a very different meaning:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpUkokRx3-k

Since this subject has gotten very far from the original topic (Dolphin vs. WWHD) this is all better suited to the Random thread in Delfino Plaza, so please refer there for my response. It's gotten too off-topic, unfortunately, hence the change of venue.

https://forums.dolphin-emu.org/Thread-random?page=760