phly95 Wrote:Tried it out on the XPS desktop machine with a good graphics card and a better processor, and I still get stuttering so it definitely doesn't have to do with the fact I have a mobile processor. Also, this mobile processor is marked as a high-end cpu getting a 3,140* score so the CPU's good, and considering my past experience, the GPU's good enough, plus the computer with the more powerful specs is having the same problem at the same magnitude, so it has to do with some code changes. Is anyone else not having this issue? If so, how did you configure it.
1. You haven't told us anything about this desktop. We'll be the judge of whether it's better.
2. Your hardware is not sufficient for the latest build but apparently is sufficient for older builds. This was your original hypothesis and has now been directly confirmed by three other people in this thread. You can't magically make that go away.
3. You still haven't answered my question about what kind of stuttering you're experiencing which makes it very difficult for me to help you.
4. Your "it should be good enough because I say so" logic doesn't work here. Dolphin isn't like other applications. As multiple people have said you can't compare it to PC games. Nor can you compare it to passmark (a highly multithreaded benchmark with a completely different type of workload). Not to mention passmark still arbitrarily assignes anything above a score of 3,000 the "high end" category even though cpus have advanced significantly since the time it was introduced.
It's not good enough for the latest builds. End of story. You've had three different people tell you that and you're still acting like we must be wrong which in my opinion can only mean that you want someone to tell you what you want to hear rather than the truth. I can tell you right now that if that's the case it's not going to happen. Sorry if I seem rude but this is getting a bit ridiculous. The truth is very simple and you must accept it sooner or later. There is no magic way around it.
I had an Intel HD 4000 myself before I upgraded to my current graphics card. I can directly confirm that it was not fast enough to handle several of my games with 3.5. With the latest dolphin release that list of games it can't handle is likely much longer.
phly95 Wrote:Also, the size and energy efficiency of a PC doesn't matter, the model number and benchmark are what matters, so it doesn't matter if I have an ultrabook, it's the CPU and GPU that matter.
Yes and the cpu and gpu are greatly constrained by the maxiumum power consumption that they've been configured for. Which is in turn directly related to the size of the device.
I think you misinterpreted my post. You have a slow cpu and gpu compared to most laptops because you chose an ultrabook. Ultrabooks are specifically designed to trade some performance away for reduced size and improved battery life. It's a series of deliberate design choices.
The i5-3317U is a ultra low voltage cpu (U series) that is slower than a regular mobile i5. It has an HD 4000 IGP which is slower than a modern discrete GPU. These parts were picked deliberately for the reasons stated above. It is not a good choice for dolphin. A similarly priced conventional laptop would perform significantly better according to every benchmark on the net. That includes our own dolphin benchmark conducted here on these forums.
Edit:
phly95 Wrote:although now more than ever, speed is an important aspect to Dolphin, because it is trying to run on Android phones with much lower specs than any modern laptop.
I assure you our android developer has no intention of making games run at fullspeed on current smartphone hardware. It's simply not possible without making drastic cutbacks to accuracy. The developers care about fixing issues and keeping the application platform agnostic. If they have to sacrifice some performance to do that they will (and have).
phly95 Wrote:Maybe there should be a new development branch focused on getting as much speed as possible, while keeping most of the compatibility that has been built up to so far.
In other words your solution is "stop fixing things". If you need such a build you can simply use an older build like everyone else. The dolphin devs aren't going to deliberately gimp the emulator so that people with weaker hardware can get better performance. They have to look ahead.
Quote:Also, the size and energy efficiency of a PC doesn't matter, the model number and benchmark are what matters, so it doesn't matter if I have an ultrabook, it's the CPU and GPU that matter.
Well, if that`s so, good luck making it work.
(08-15-2013, 01:47 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]phyl95 Wrote:Tried it out on the XPS desktop machine with a good graphics card and a better processor, and I still get stuttering so it definitely doesn't have to do with the fact I have a mobile processor. Also, this mobile processor is marked as a high-end cpu getting a 3,140* score so the CPU's good, and considering my past experience, the GPU's good enough, plus the computer with the more powerful specs is having the same problem at the same magnitude, so it has to do with some code changes. Is anyone else not having this issue? If so, how did you configure it.
1. You haven't told us anything about this desktop. We'll be the judge of whether it's better.
2. Your hardware is not sufficient for the latest build but apparently is sufficient for older builds. This was your original hypothesis and has now been directly confirmed by three other people in this thread. You can't magically make that go away.
3. You still haven't answered my question about what kind of stuttering you're experiencing which makes it very difficult for me to help you.
4. Your "it should be good enough because I say so" logic doesn't work here. Dolphin isn't like other applications. As multiple people have said you can't compare it to PC games. Nor can you compare it to passmark (a highly multithreaded benchmark with a completely different type of workload). Not to mention passmark still arbitrarily assignes anything above a score of 3,000 the "high end" category even though cpus have advanced significantly since the time it was introduced.
It's not good enough for the latest builds. End of story. You've had three different people tell you that and you're still acting like we must be wrong which in my opinion can only mean that you want someone to tell you what you want to hear rather than the truth. I can tell you right now that if that's the case it's not going to happen. Sorry if I seem rude but this is getting a bit ridiculous. The truth is very simple and you must accept it sooner or later. There is no magic way around it.
I had an Intel HD 4000 myself before I upgraded to my current graphics card. I can directly confirm that it was not fast enough to handle several of my games with 3.5. With the latest dolphin release that list of games it can't handle is likely much longer.
phyl95 Wrote:Also, the size and energy efficiency of a PC doesn't matter, the model number and benchmark are what matters, so it doesn't matter if I have an ultrabook, it's the CPU and GPU that matter.
Yes and the cpu and gpu are greatly constrained by the maxiumum power consumption that they've been configured for. Which is in turn directly related to the size of the device.
I think you misinterpreted my post. You have a slow cpu and gpu compared to most laptops because you chose an ultrabook. Ultrabooks are specifically designed to trade some performance away for reduced size and improved battery life. It's a series of deliberate design choices.
The i5-3317U is a ultra low voltage cpu (U series) that is slower than a regular mobile i5. It has an HD 4000 IGP which is slower than a modern discrete GPU. These parts were picked deliberately for the reasons stated above. It is not a good choice for dolphin. A similarly priced conventional laptop would perform significantly better according to every benchmark on the net. That includes our own dolphin benchmark conducted here on these forums.
Maybe there should be a new development branch focused on getting as much speed as possible, while trying to keep most of the compatibility that has been built up to so far, but mainly focus only on big titles like Zelda and Mario, and other big games, mainly to help with development for Android phones, although, I'm not sure if speed hacks can be ported to different hardware like that. Also, DSP on thread mainly fixed the stuttering (type, stopping audio and video briefly every few seconds) with openAL setting, though now I've got a GPU speed issue, but that has nothing to do with this thread and I know it won't be fixed, so I'll just stick with the old version anyway.
So in the end I found the solution to my thread's problem, and now I'm just left with the need to upgrade my GPU somehow which is a completely unrelated issue. Well, I guess my games work with the old version, so why bother trying to correct the development version? Right?
Quote:Maybe there should be a new development branch focused on getting as much speed as possible, while trying to keep most of the compatibility that has been built up to so far
Why no one has ever come up with this?
(08-15-2013, 02:05 PM)omega_rugal Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Maybe there should be a new development branch focused on getting as much speed as possible, while trying to keep most of the compatibility that has been built up to so far
Why no one has ever come up with this?
The devs work on whatever area of Dolphin interests them. The lack of such a branch means it's not anyone's current priority. Essentially, no one who can make such a branch wants to at this moment.
That would be a really dumb idea for a branch:
NaturalViolence Wrote:Your solution is "stop fixing things". If you need such a build you can simply use an older build like everyone else. The dolphin devs aren't going to deliberately gimp the emulator so that people with weaker hardware can get better performance. They have to look ahead.
@phly95
Does the framerate and/or gamespeed actually go down during these "stutters" that you're having?
Because I don't think that you're talking about sputtering. I think that you're talking about a framerate drop.
(08-15-2013, 12:56 PM)omega_rugal Wrote: [ -> ]some games that never were playable in any of the older versions somehow work just fine in version 2.0
Killer Instinct Gold being an example of that
AFAIK Killer Instinct was already playable before
(08-15-2013, 04:32 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]That would be a really dumb idea for a branch:
NaturalViolence Wrote:Your solution is "stop fixing things". If you need such a build you can simply use an older build like everyone else. The dolphin devs aren't going to deliberately gimp the emulator so that people with weaker hardware can get better performance. They have to look ahead.
@phly95
Does the framerate and/or gamespeed actually go down during these "stutters" that you're having?
Because I don't think that you're talking about sputtering. I think that you're talking about a framerate drop.
Actually I was talking about stuttering, which was happening in the most graphically simple places that get fullspeed except for the stutters, but now that I switched the DSP to OpenAL on separate thread, that problem seems to have nearly stopped. This thread was talking about that issue, not the issue of the frame rate, but that is a problem I have on my laptop too, but that isn't what this thread is about, because I don't think you want to optimise GPU performance for integrated graphics, although it may be easier to make visuals run faster without compromising compatibility if the GPU is the bottleneck than having to change emulation code to make a computer with a CPU bottleneck run faster.
(08-15-2013, 10:32 PM)LordVador Wrote: [ -> ]AFAIK Killer Instinct was already playable before
Really? which version? up to version 1.6 the rom was marked as "plugin issue/slow" and indeed played very slow and gfx were bad (wrong/missing tiles, white textures etc...)
i didn`try 1.7 though...
No need to try 1.7 when 2.1 is out