(07-25-2013, 11:04 AM)admin89 Wrote: [ -> ]Err...Everyone know that Zelda WW is a light weight game while Zelda SS and Zelda TP are demanding games , right ?
The new AX HLE is demanding . If you don't get full speed all the time , you will have stuttering audio
So if you buy a mid range CPU , you will have to stick with older Dolphin version (like the stable 3.5 , 3.5-145) .
Like I said, I'm not gonna be playing TP, I have it on Wii, and SS is probably gonna be outta the picture, but I will try it out. I'm ok with the older version of Dolphin, looking for functionality really, not features.
Can someone explain LLE and HLE as well? I've seen that everywhere, thanks.
nsahawks7 Wrote:I wish AMD would work a bit more on single threading I suppose, most programs won't really be multi threaded ever
Fixed that for you. Most programs are made mostly of algorithms that cannot be efficiently multithreaded by nature. Luckily the small number that can be multithreaded efficiently are mostly the programs where we actually need more performance. Unfortunately though emulators are not in that list.
pauldacheez Wrote:I dunno if NaturalViolence missed this or thought it wasn't a concern, but, you might have issues running Twilight Princess (mostly in Hyrule Field later in the game) and Skyward Sword (generally a demanding game, IIRC).
Somebody already mentioned twilight princess earlier in the thread so I didn't feel the need to mention it again.
nsahawks7 Wrote:Like I said, I'm not gonna be playing TP and SS is probably gonna be outta the picture, but I will try it out. I'm out with the older version of Dolphin, looking for functionality really, not features.
You don't lose many features by using older builds. You do lose a lot of accuracy though (more issues). SS for example has a number of issues with older builds that have since been resolved.
(07-25-2013, 04:59 AM)nsahawks7 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2013, 04:49 AM)linker357 Wrote: [ -> ]The CPU plays a really big part in performance but with a few tweaks in the graphics tab you can increase your fps 
Ahhh that sounds much better, HD would be nice but if I have to cut some things down I'm fine with that.
Also, someone said something about OCing. If I get this to say, 4.2Ghz, do you know what the Intel equivalent would be approximately?
Well, to really start getting to the level of a stock 2500K, I would say you needed more than 4.2 GHz on the 6300 (but im not completely sure). AMD isnt that bad as long as you aren't trying to run intensive games (which, even though a lot of popular games are intensive, there aren't a TON of games that as intensive as Xenoblade, Twilight Princess, SMG, etc), especially with LLE DSP emulation. In all honesty, if you were to overclock this thing to the brim (which means high end air or watercooling) you could run a few intensive games reasonably with HLE (your dreaming if you want LLE). Thankfully the new AX_HLE is out.
Hoping Steamroller gives at least a 20% IPC boost... I wont be surprised if its lower though lol
Edit: Opps, I didnt see the second page guys, sorry if this was answered
(07-25-2013, 11:39 AM)ThorhiantheUltimate Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2013, 04:59 AM)nsahawks7 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2013, 04:49 AM)linker357 Wrote: [ -> ]The CPU plays a really big part in performance but with a few tweaks in the graphics tab you can increase your fps
Ahhh that sounds much better, HD would be nice but if I have to cut some things down I'm fine with that.
Also, someone said something about OCing. If I get this to say, 4.2Ghz, do you know what the Intel equivalent would be approximately?
Well, to really start getting to the level of a stock 2500K, I would say you needed more than 4.2 GHz on the 6300 (but im not completely sure). AMD isnt that bad as long as you aren't trying to run intensive games (which, even though a lot of popular games are intensive, there aren't a TON of games that as intensive as Xenoblade, Twilight Princess, SMG, etc), especially with LLE DSP emulation. In all honesty, if you were to overclock this thing to the brim (which means high end air or watercooling) you could run a few intensive games reasonably with HLE (your dreaming if you want LLE). Thankfully the new AX_HLE is out.
Hoping Steamroller gives at least a 20% IPC boost... I wont be surprised if its lower though lol
Edit: Opps, I didnt see the second page guys, sorry if this was answered
Nope, you're fine. Hopefully it does, that's what I'm betting on. Better single-threading performance. If AMD can finally get even the quad core CPU to beat i3's in most/all single threading applications, that would be a huge step up considering their lower pricing.
Definitely not taking the water cooling route, so I guess I just have to pop it on, OC up to about 4Ghz on air and hope for the best.
(07-25-2013, 11:38 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]
nsahawks7 Wrote:I wish AMD would work a bit more on single threading I suppose, most programs won't really be multi threaded ever
Fixed that for you. Most programs are made mostly of algorithms that cannot be efficiently multithreaded by nature. Luckily the small number that can be multithreaded efficiently are mostly the programs where we actually need more performance. Unfortunately though emulators are not in that list.
pauldacheez Wrote:I dunno if NaturalViolence missed this or thought it wasn't a concern, but, you might have issues running Twilight Princess (mostly in Hyrule Field later in the game) and Skyward Sword (generally a demanding game, IIRC).
Somebody already mentioned twilight princess earlier in the thread so I didn't feel the need to mention it again.
nsahawks7 Wrote:Like I said, I'm not gonna be playing TP and SS is probably gonna be outta the picture, but I will try it out. I'm out with the older version of Dolphin, looking for functionality really, not features.
You don't lose many features by using older builds. You do lose a lot of accuracy though (more issues). SS for example has a number of issues with older builds that have since been resolved.
Ever is HIGHLY improbable and extremely bold to say, most applications now are using dual core processors to their advantage, so who's to say that in the next few years that multi-threaded dual cores or tri-cores could be the next norm? Emulators probably will ~ not dolphin, but things like a PS3 emulator really needs core power.
I'll try out the builds, honestly, if SS will be that laggy and newer builds won't run it as well, I guess it would just be worth to buy the actual game again since my other one got messed up.
(07-25-2013, 11:47 AM)nsahawks7 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2013, 11:39 AM)ThorhiantheUltimate Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2013, 04:59 AM)nsahawks7 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2013, 04:49 AM)linker357 Wrote: [ -> ]The CPU plays a really big part in performance but with a few tweaks in the graphics tab you can increase your fps
Ahhh that sounds much better, HD would be nice but if I have to cut some things down I'm fine with that.
Also, someone said something about OCing. If I get this to say, 4.2Ghz, do you know what the Intel equivalent would be approximately?
Well, to really start getting to the level of a stock 2500K, I would say you needed more than 4.2 GHz on the 6300 (but im not completely sure). AMD isnt that bad as long as you aren't trying to run intensive games (which, even though a lot of popular games are intensive, there aren't a TON of games that as intensive as Xenoblade, Twilight Princess, SMG, etc), especially with LLE DSP emulation. In all honesty, if you were to overclock this thing to the brim (which means high end air or watercooling) you could run a few intensive games reasonably with HLE (your dreaming if you want LLE). Thankfully the new AX_HLE is out.
Hoping Steamroller gives at least a 20% IPC boost... I wont be surprised if its lower though lol
Edit: Opps, I didnt see the second page guys, sorry if this was answered
Nope, you're fine. Hopefully it does, that's what I'm betting on. Better single-threading performance. If AMD can finally get even the quad core CPU to beat i3's in most/all single threading applications, that would be a huge step up considering their lower pricing.
Definitely not taking the water cooling route, so I guess I just have to pop it on, OC up to about 4Ghz on air and hope for the best.
Well, these days the water route isnt too hard. You could just buy a closed loop from corsair or whoever has the best currently. Also, even though its pricey to do it right according to what situation your in, a custom loop is an AMAZING thing to have around, even if its only for your CPU. Depending on the models, Waterblocks have replaceable brackets, allowing you to adapt to new sockets along with other CPUs. A CPU 370 can be used in practically any modern Intel Mobo/CPU or AMD setup. Just make sure you set up custom loops correctly, and youll never really have to worry about leaks, especially these days.
But anyways, Piledriver in itself is pretty awesome chip, especially the 8320/50, but it just doesn't have the individual core IPC to handle some lightly threaded applications. It truly shines if you use it for productivity/ heavy computing (Video rendering, 3D rendering, folding (but people use GPU more and more often for that these days), etc).
I need both the higher IPC per core and the incredible heavily threaded performance, so im waiting for steamroller while I rock my Thuban, which runs fairly well and its a hexacore, so it does well in some my Blender Endeavors and other things.
Edit: I hope if you plan on using air, that you AREN'T USING THE STOCK COOLER! Don't use that piece of junk, go and buy a superior cooler to OC with, you can get over 4 GHz
(07-25-2013, 01:31 PM)ThorhiantheUltimate Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2013, 11:47 AM)nsahawks7 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2013, 11:39 AM)ThorhiantheUltimate Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2013, 04:59 AM)nsahawks7 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2013, 04:49 AM)linker357 Wrote: [ -> ]The CPU plays a really big part in performance but with a few tweaks in the graphics tab you can increase your fps
Ahhh that sounds much better, HD would be nice but if I have to cut some things down I'm fine with that.
Also, someone said something about OCing. If I get this to say, 4.2Ghz, do you know what the Intel equivalent would be approximately?
Well, to really start getting to the level of a stock 2500K, I would say you needed more than 4.2 GHz on the 6300 (but im not completely sure). AMD isnt that bad as long as you aren't trying to run intensive games (which, even though a lot of popular games are intensive, there aren't a TON of games that as intensive as Xenoblade, Twilight Princess, SMG, etc), especially with LLE DSP emulation. In all honesty, if you were to overclock this thing to the brim (which means high end air or watercooling) you could run a few intensive games reasonably with HLE (your dreaming if you want LLE). Thankfully the new AX_HLE is out.
Hoping Steamroller gives at least a 20% IPC boost... I wont be surprised if its lower though lol
Edit: Opps, I didnt see the second page guys, sorry if this was answered
Nope, you're fine. Hopefully it does, that's what I'm betting on. Better single-threading performance. If AMD can finally get even the quad core CPU to beat i3's in most/all single threading applications, that would be a huge step up considering their lower pricing.
Definitely not taking the water cooling route, so I guess I just have to pop it on, OC up to about 4Ghz on air and hope for the best.
Well, these days the water route isnt too hard. You could just buy a closed loop from corsair or whoever has the best currently. Also, even though its pricey to do it right according to what situation your in, a custom loop is an AMAZING thing to have around, even if its only for your CPU. Depending on the models, Waterblocks have replaceable brackets, allowing you to adapt to new sockets along with other CPUs. A CPU 370 can be used in practically any modern Intel Mobo/CPU or AMD setup. Just make sure you set up custom loops correctly, and youll never really have to worry about leaks, especially these days.
But anyways, Piledriver in itself is pretty awesome chip, especially the 8320/50, but it just doesn't have the individual core IPC to handle some lightly threaded applications. It truly shines if you use it for productivity/ heavy computing (Video rendering, 3D rendering, folding (but people use GPU more and more often for that these days), etc).
I need both the higher IPC per core and the incredible heavily threaded performance, so im waiting for steamroller while I rock my Thuban, which runs fairly well and its a hexacore, so it does well in some my Blender Endeavors and other things.
Edit: I hope if you plan on using air, that you AREN'T USING THE STOCK COOLER! Don't use that piece of junk, go and buy a superior cooler to OC with, you can get over 4 GHz
Yupp! I understand that water cooling is the best route, I've done it before, just don't have the cash for all the nice accessories right now. And if I do OC, I'm gonna go with the Hyper 212 Plus, Evo is great, but I just need a few extra megahertz to seal the deal.
Hopefully steam roller won't be a bust..
(07-25-2013, 01:44 PM)nsahawks7 Wrote: [ -> ]-snipped
Yeah, I hope it isnt either. The improvements they say they will make seem like they could change things. In reality, my worry isnt that it wont have higher IPC, its that it may get a giant IPC boost (heck, maybe 30%), but it will loose Vishera/Zambezi's ability to have really high clock speeds. IPC is nothing without a high enough clockspeed, and Clockspeeds are nothing if you don't have high enough IPC. Its all about the IPS.
If clockspeeds don't lower too much, Steamroller may just be able to steamroll most games in dolphin
But if it gets too low, then we loose IPS/it doesnt change much/ we dont get too many gains in IPS
nsahawks7 Wrote:Ever is HIGHLY improbable and extremely bold to say,
There are basic laws of logic that cannot be broken that prevent this from happening. Until cpus also have the ability to time travel it's not going to happen. You cannot do two tasks at the same time when one task requires the result of the other task as data. There is no way around that.
nsahawks7 Wrote:most applications now are using dual core processors to their advantage,
This is statistically not even close to being true. The vast majority of applications include no multithreading what so ever. The majority of programmers have no experience with multithreading what so ever.
nsahawks7 Wrote:so who's to say that in the next few years that multi-threaded dual cores or tri-cores could be the next norm?
Logic. As long as multithreading has the strict requirements that it has and relies on complex programming to work it will never be as widely adopted as singlethreading.
You can argue that the applications that aren't going to be multithreaded mostly don't matter since most of them don't need the extra performance anyways. And that's true. For example there is no reason to make word processors like microsoft word multithreaded. Which is good because it's either extremely difficult or impossible to make it scale well.
nsahawks7 Wrote:Definitely not taking the water cooling route, so I guess I just have to pop it on, OC up to about 4Ghz on air and hope for the best.
You should be able to hit 4.5GHz on air just fine.
@ThorhiantheUltimate
Just for reference they need a 40% increase in IPC with no drop in clock rate to match the performance of ivy bridge in dolphin. They will need an 80% increase to match the performance of haswell. So they will remain far behind even under the best case scenario. Not to mention haswell has integrated graphics and a lower power consumption (and if you turn off the IGP it has half the power consumption of vishera so its performance per watt is about 3.5 times as high in dolphin). They are so far behind now that there is virtually no chance of them ever catching up.
To patch a small hole in what NV said and beat any potentially bad comebacks using said hole, the division of modern games into 2-3 cores proves his point, and doesn't negate it. Most PC games (and Dolphin) use 2-3 cores because certain parts of them were already mostly separate: the parts didn't need to have data from the other parts during operations so it was pretty simple to break them apart into separate threads. That's why 2 cores for low end and 4 cores for high end has been the standard for non-server CPUs since 2007 (excluding AMD's (and now Samsung's) more-cores-mean-better marketing). With most programs using a single core and most games using only 2 or 3 cores, there is simply no benefit for anyone to go above four cores for personal computing.
If there is going to be change, it's going to have to come on the hardware side with some sort of inter-core communication technique. AMD has tried to do that kind of stuff but nothing has really come of it. It is apparently very hard.
(07-25-2013, 04:35 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]nsahawks7 Wrote:Ever is HIGHLY improbable and extremely bold to say,
There are basic laws of logic that cannot be broken that prevent this from happening. Until cpus also have the ability to time travel it's not going to happen. You cannot do two tasks at the same time when one task requires the result of the other task as data. There is no way around that.
nsahawks7 Wrote:most applications now are using dual core processors to their advantage,
This is statistically not even close to being true. The vast majority of applications include no multithreading what so ever. The majority of programmers have no experience with multithreading what so ever.
nsahawks7 Wrote:so who's to say that in the next few years that multi-threaded dual cores or tri-cores could be the next norm?
Logic. As long as multithreading has the strict requirements that it has and relies on complex programming to work it will never be as widely adopted as singlethreading.
You can argue that the applications that aren't going to be multithreaded mostly don't matter since most of them don't need the extra performance anyways. And that's true. For example there is no reason to make word processors like microsoft word multithreaded. Which is good because it's either extremely difficult or impossible to make it scale well.
nsahawks7 Wrote:Definitely not taking the water cooling route, so I guess I just have to pop it on, OC up to about 4Ghz on air and hope for the best.
You should be able to hit 4.5GHz on air just fine.
@ThorhiantheUltimate
Just for reference they need a 40% increase in IPC with no drop in clock rate to match the performance of ivy bridge in dolphin. They will need an 80% increase to match the performance of haswell. So they will remain far behind even under the best case scenario. Not to mention haswell has integrated graphics and a lower power consumption (and if you turn off the IGP it has half the power consumption of vishera so its performance per watt is about 3.5 times as high in dolphin). They are so far behind now that there is virtually no chance of them ever catching up.
(07-25-2013, 05:03 PM)MaJoR Wrote: [ -> ]To patch a small hole in what NV said and beat any potentially bad comebacks using said hole, the division of modern games into 2-3 cores proves his point, and doesn't negate it. Most PC games (and Dolphin) use 2-3 cores because certain parts of them were already mostly separate: the parts didn't need to have data from the other parts during operations so it was pretty simple to break them apart into separate threads. That's why 2 cores for low end and 4 cores for high end has been the standard for non-server CPUs since 2007 (excluding AMD's (and now Samsung's) more-cores-mean-better marketing). With most programs using a single core and most games using only 2 or 3 cores, there is simply no benefit for anyone to go above four cores for personal computing.
If there is going to be change, it's going to have to come on the hardware side with some sort of inter-core communication technique. AMD has tried to do that kind of stuff but nothing has really come of it. It is apparently very hard.
I just researched it a bit and you guys are sorta right haha. IT seems that the applications that do use multicores are things like Sony Vegas and Photoshop, and most applications do not need the extra power and probably never will. Anyway, just had a few ideas on the subject, didn't wanna cause anything bad.
@ThorhiantheUltimate Even though I root for the underdogs, I doubt that would happen. They said that Bulldozer will be the intel killer, no. They also said that they will be more energy effecient but that has yet to come.
Ultimately, I looked up Steam Roller and found that the FX-9XXX series has come out (not for consumer buys but for pre-built machines like CyberPower) and well, the TDP is 200W with 5Ghz. Basically, it's an overclcoked FX-83XX...
So far AMD is a bit behind but you have to remember, they said they're done competing with Intel and they also have graphic cards to worry about while Intel has processors and the occasional "motherboard" or "SSD". They were also the first to 1Ghz, Quad Core, 8 Core Desktop Processor, and now 5 Ghz on stock.