Zaxx Wrote:"Everyone is free to do this" is not a solution because no one is doing it, simple as that.
Yeah that's not really valid reasoning, like I've already said. Simply because something hasn't been done yet does not mean something will not be done in the future. I'm sure the folks who used and contributed to OpenOffice.org didn't initially imagine someone would fork the code into a better project (LibreOffice), but that's what ended up happening despite the fact that it have never been done. This thing happens frequently in the FOSS community.
Zaxx Wrote:Writing a list based on feedback needs no testing, you don't have to overcomplicate everything: you just write down a revision's name others said was working fine. It might not work for the user at the end, but at least it's a starting point.
How does it not involve testing? The users contributing feedback have to check which revision they're using for each game, verify that it's the best that works for them (as opposed to other builds), and report it back. Unless such a list is going to be a haphazard compilation of revisions people "think" or "sorta remember" using and a game ran well, people are going to have to do some sort of check. The info on the list is going to be useless if Joe Random spent all of 3 minutes playing Super Smash Bros. Brawl, recommends his revision, but it turns out that this revision has a host of issues later on in the game, or in various other parts that Joe never tested.
The thing is, collecting that feedback from Joe Random isn't something that just happens by itself or right away. We've had a wiki for years now, and we've actively asked people to contribute more, yet we still have many pages where entries are entirely blank. You can make a thread here if you like, again, nothing is stopping you from creating something like that (especially if you feel it would be useful to others). The major hurdle is getting people to contribute enough information to be useful, which has been a consistent issue for the forums and the wikis. I can't blame them; most probably just want to play Dolphin instead of spending time gathering info for the forums.
Zaxx Wrote:As far is it's not working releasing 3 revisions a day is pointless whil expecting that the user will try out a hundred of them: that is stupid.
That's why we recommend the stable builds unless the user has an issue (performance, bugs, compatibility, etc) that is fixed in the development builds. Each development build is based on the very latest commits to the git repository; they're bleeding edge for a reason. The developers don't expect people to use or test them unless people have some idea of why they're better than the stable builds (hence most of these changes are experimental). No one is expecting the user to go on a quest to find the perfect revision out of all the available ones.
(12-25-2013, 08:34 AM)Shonumi Wrote: [ -> ]' Wrote:"Everyone is free to do this" is not a solution because no one is doing it, simple as that.
Yeah that's not really valid reasoning, like I've already said. Simply because something hasn't been done yet does not mean something will not be done in the future. I'm sure the folks who used and contributed to OpenOffice.org didn't initially imagine someone would fork the code into a better project (LibreOffice), but that's what ended up happening despite the fact that it have never been done. This thing happens frequently in the FOSS community.
' Wrote:Writing a list based on feedback needs no testing, you don't have to overcomplicate everything: you just write down a revision's name others said was working fine. It might not work for the user at the end, but at least it's a starting point.
How does it not involve testing? The users contributing feedback have to check which revision they're using for each game, verify that it's the best that works for them (as opposed to other builds), and report it back. Unless such a list is going to be a haphazard compilation of revisions people "think" or "sorta remember" using and a game ran well, people are going to have to do some sort of check. The info on the list is going to be useless if Joe Random spent all of 3 minutes playing Super Smash Bros. Brawl, recommends his revision, but it turns out that this revision has a host of issues later on in the game, or in various other parts that Joe never tested.
The thing is, collecting that feedback from Joe Random isn't something that just happens by itself or right away. We've had a wiki for years now, and we've actively asked people to contribute more, yet we still have many pages where entries are entirely blank. You can make a thread here if you like, again, nothing is stopping you from creating something like that (especially if you feel it would be useful to others). The major hurdle is getting people to contribute enough information to be useful, which has been a consistent issue for the forums and the wikis. I can't blame them; most probably just want to play Dolphin instead of spending time gathering info for the forums.
' Wrote:As far is it's not working releasing 3 revisions a day is pointless whil expecting that the user will try out a hundred of them: that is stupid.
That's why we recommend the stable builds unless the user has an issue (performance, bugs, compatibility, etc) that is fixed in the development builds. Each development build is based on the very latest commits to the git repository; they're bleeding edge for a reason. The developers don't expect people to use or test them unless people have some idea of why they're better than the stable builds (hence most of these changes are experimental). No one is expecting the user to go on a quest to find the perfect revision out of all the available ones.
The no need for testing part was meant as there is no testing needed for the devs of Dolphin, of course Joe Random has to get his info from somewhere. If the community is not too keen of exchanging information, well what can I say, that's bad, man.
All I can promise is that once I finish the game I'd be happy to contribute to the game's wiki page. Not only because that feels right but also because after the 5 housr I've put into it the game all I can say is that it surpassed my expectations. Forgotten Sands is an overlooked gem, it's really up to the standards of the SoT series and it's a much better game than the 360/PS3/PC versions. I hope many Wii / Dolphin users will try it out because it's a shame if people judge this game based on the previous Wii entries to the series. Those were merely half-assed ports while Forgotten Sands is its own great game.
Did a bit of fiddling with the various revisions: can confirm that the game is not working since revision 4.0-325. The graphics are not rendering.
Turning Vsync on in OpenGL hurts performance big time at some places, fps drops down to 30. Could it be that Dolphin lacks triple buffering in 2013? Please God no!
(12-29-2013, 01:23 AM)Zaxx Wrote: [ -> ]Turning Vsync on in OpenGL hurts performance big time at some places, fps drops down to 30. Could it be that Dolphin lacks triple buffering in 2013? Please God no!
It's up to the game to implement triple buffering. Dolphin emulates whatever the game wants.
(12-29-2013, 01:57 PM)skid Wrote: [ -> ] (12-29-2013, 01:23 AM)Zaxx Wrote: [ -> ]Turning Vsync on in OpenGL hurts performance big time at some places, fps drops down to 30. Could it be that Dolphin lacks triple buffering in 2013? Please God no!
It's up to the game to implement triple buffering. Dolphin emulates whatever the game wants.
How is that possible? As far as I know the Wii has no vsync implemented which means that triple buffering is out of the question really on the game side.
You've pretty much answered your own question.
(12-30-2013, 08:33 AM)Zaxx Wrote: [ -> ]which means that triple buffering is out of the question really on the game side.
And that's why Dolphin does not have triple buffering.
(12-30-2013, 08:33 AM)Zaxx Wrote: [ -> ]As far as I know the Wii has no vsync implemented.
All
raster based consoles have vsync. This includes the Wii. This also includes your Windows PC. Now what if the game on the Wii has not turned on vsync, but you have in Windows? What happens if both the game and Windows have disabled vsync? What happens if vsync has been turned on in both the game and on your Windows PC? What if the game is running at 60hz while you've set your TV to run at 120hz?
(12-30-2013, 01:37 PM)skid Wrote: [ -> ]You've pretty much answered your own question.
(12-30-2013, 08:33 AM)Zaxx Wrote: [ -> ]which means that triple buffering is out of the question really on the game side.
And that's why Dolphin does not have triple buffering.
(12-30-2013, 08:33 AM)Zaxx Wrote: [ -> ]As far as I know the Wii has no vsync implemented.
All raster based consoles have vsync. This includes the Wii. This also includes your Windows PC. Now what if the game on the Wii has not turned on vsync, but you have in Windows? What happens if both the game and Windows have disabled vsync? What happens if vsync has been turned on in both the game and on your Windows PC? What if the game is running at 60hz while you've set your TV to run at 120hz?
Don't really care about that but here's a question I'm curious about. If I use OpenGL in Dolphin, turn vsync off in the graphics settings but force vsync in the Nvidia Control Panel and turn on Triple Buffering (or instead if this I use D3D Overrider under DirectX9) will I have triple buffering while running the game?
Edit: Tried it, the answer is no. It's a shame because vsync smoothed out a lot of the stuttering but guess I'll just have to live without it.
Implement triple buffering in the future, pretty please! Don't care about excuses: it's in other emulators, it should be in Dolphin too (even if it's not accurate you out of focus bastards
). I know Dolphin is a weird beast (DX9 is faster than DX11 - I can't even imagine why-, sound stops when below full speed (why the f**k is there no option to use the old audio emulator in 4.0? that version worked better with PoP, lip syncing was much better on full speed), limited fine tuning possibilites - why can't I set my framelimit to 13 for example? - etc.) but some features could really make our lifes easier.
As for the audio emulation in 4.0: it would make sense to do something like this in order to get better sound quality if the performance would be better. At this state however this mostly just breaks the experience but seeing that 4.0-315 is actually faster than 3.5 I'm hopefuly you guys realize this is a problem and will do something about it in the future. Get that feature in 315 working again correctly and games will be playable again.