Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

I've been thinking about getting a VGA cable for my Wii, so I can hook it up to my CRT computer monitor and use 480p. The only thing that's stopping me from purchasing one is that I've read that there are problems with it. One being that the screen will fade to black every so often for a couple of seconds. There are two supposed reasons for this happening, one being that even if the Wii is set to 480p mode, it will still display random 480i images, which VGA can't display, hence the monitor going black for a couple seconds. Another reason is that it has to do with PAL and NTSC, and that it only effects PAL systems. I've also read some reviews that it works perfectly fine. So I'm puzzled as to if this black screen would happen to me if I was playing. Does anyone know if this is true?

You haven't given us any information about what you're buying or what you plan to do. You haven't listed any sources for any of stuff you're talking about and we don't know what product any of these issues is supposed to be referring to. Which product are these reviews for?

And no, none of the stuff you just mentioned makes any sense. Especially without context. We can't claim any of these is true/false until we at least know what you're referring to.

The Wii does not support vga output so you will have to convert one of the other outputs to vga with a converter box. The ideal way would be to do 480p YPbPr over component to the converter box then convert that to 480p sRGB which will run to the monitor over VGA.

You can buy a component to vga cable but unless it has a built in converter (most don't) it won't work unless your display supports receiving YPbPr over vga. There are hardly any displays in existence that support this so this is highly unlikely. If the cable does have a built in converter you'll know because it will have a bulky connector and will be outrageously expensive.

Y'know, even with the upscaling that happens when I hook my Wii up via component to a 1366x768 32" TV, it looks perfectly fine from normal viewing distances (5-10 feet away) – seriously, over component it looks pretty good, especially if you stop thinking about the upscaling and just play the fucking games. I don't know why you want to hook it up to a CRT, it'll just look worse and you'll get "free antialiasing" and color bleed from it. (Unless CRT monitors don't have those problems and CRT TVs do. I haven't regularly looked at any CRT monitors in over a decade, while I still have one CRT TV in regular service at home.)

(07-08-2013, 01:22 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]You haven't given us any information about what you're buying or what you plan to do.

I told you before, that I'm buying a VGA cable for the Wii. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out what I'm planning to do with it (even though I told you I was hooking it up to my computer CRT). So I told you exactly what I'm planning to do with it.

(07-08-2013, 01:22 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]You haven't listed any sources for any of stuff you're talking about and we don't know what product any of these issues is supposed to be referring to.

I'll list some threads and videos of this problem below. This issue effects all VGA cables for the Wii. It doesn't matter which VGA cable you use, they all have the same issue.

Threads:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/1...-vga-cable (This is were I heard about the 480p to rnadom 480i frame theory)
http://www.wiichat.com/forum/nintendo-wi...cable.html
http://superuser.com/questions/209292/wi...blacks-out
http://www.gamespot.com/forums/topic/26171622 (it mentions this problem in the thread)

Videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-qpGY-AbXo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BLp7w4KM40

(07-08-2013, 01:22 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]And no, none of the stuff you just mentioned makes any sense. Especially without context. We can't claim any of these is true/false until we at least know what you're referring to.

Yes they do. I gave detailed reasons as to why this black screen would occur. Two of them specifically. The threads and videos I posted prove this to be true.

(07-08-2013, 01:22 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]The Wii does not support vga output so you will have to convert one of the other outputs to vga with a converter box. The ideal way would be to do 480p YPbPr over component to the converter box then convert that to 480p sRGB which will run to the monitor over VGA.

You're wrong. The Wii can indeed output in VGA with no converter box needed. Look at these cables below. There is no converter box, and I highly doubt there is a converter within the cable.

http://www.amazon.com/Wii-PS3-VGA-HDTV-C...ds=wii+vga
http://www.amazon.com/Wii-PS3-Cable-Comp...ds=wii+vga
http://www.amazon.com/Mayflash-Wii-PS3-V...ds=wii+vga

(07-08-2013, 08:16 PM)pauldacheez Wrote: [ -> ]Y'know, even with the upscaling that happens when I hook my Wii up via component to a 1366x768 32" TV, it looks perfectly fine from normal viewing distances (5-10 feet away) – seriously, over component it looks pretty good, especially if you stop thinking about the upscaling and just play the fucking games. I don't know why you want to hook it up to a CRT, it'll just look worse and you'll get "free antialiasing" and color bleed from it. (Unless CRT monitors don't have those problems and CRT TVs do. I haven't regularly looked at any CRT monitors in over a decade, while I still have one CRT TV in regular service at home.)

CRT's are superior to LCD in everyway. Don't turn this thread into a CRT vs LCD debate. The reason there are fewer jaggy edges when using a LCD is because the image is being scaled so it looses picture qiality, and covers up the alasing artifacts much more. A LCD can only display its native resolution without the need to scale, which is why playing older systems on LCD's look like poop. They are being scaled and blurred (which is why you don't see jaggies as much). A CRT can display any resolution without the need to scale it, so it retains its detail and sharpness. Hence, why you can see more jaggies on polygons, because CRT's dont scale the image and blur it.

CRT's do NOT color bleed in anyway. Only LCD's color bleed from scaling.

It has been decided many times by people with really good eyes that LCD technology is now better than the pinnacle of CRT technology, especially as you don't have a curved screen distorting the image and a noise that sounds like a pig being branded whenever they're on.

Also, when NV said what you said makes no sense without context, you can't retrospectively add context, and then say that, in fact, they make perfect sense. What he wrote was correct at the time of writing.

Stupid question: do LED's also suffer from "color bleeding" too or just LCD's?

(07-09-2013, 07:27 AM)AnyOldName3 Wrote: [ -> ]It has been decided many times by people with really good eyes that LCD technology is now better than the pinnacle of CRT technology, especially as you don't have a curved screen distorting the image and a noise that sounds like a pig being branded whenever they're on.

Also, when NV said what you said makes no sense without context, you can't retrospectively add context, and then say that, in fact, they make perfect sense. What he wrote was correct at the time of writing.

LCD can only display at the most, 24-bit color, and that is only with the very best IPS displays. CRT can display true 32-bit color and HIGHER. Have you not heard of flatscreen CRT's before? I'm using one right now, and don't get me started on LCD input lag. And don't say that its not noticeable, go play guitar hero without "calibrating" your TV and see if the input lag is unnoticeable. I can notice input lag and ghosting on all LCD's I look at, but that's because I strictly use only CRT's, which have no input lag.

I gave NaturalViolence enough information to not need any of those questions that he asked. He wasn't correct back then, at the time of writing, or even now.

Jesus christ, again?

If you've already decided that all of that is correct then why did you ask me if it was correct? Do you have any idea how infuriating that is?

shoober420 Wrote:I told you before, that I'm buying a VGA cable for the Wii. It shouldn't be too hard to figure out what I'm planning to do with it (even though I told you I was hooking it up to my computer CRT). So I told you exactly what I'm planning to do with it.

shoober420 Wrote:Yes they do. I gave detailed reasons as to why this black screen would occur. Two of them specifically. The threads and videos I posted prove this to be true.

There are three different types of cables you could use for this. So no, you didn't. You were far too vague. You also didn't list any of your sources in your original post.

Like AON3 said you now have context, so now it makes sense.

shoober420 Wrote:You're wrong. The Wii can indeed output in VGA with no converter box needed. Look at these cables below. There is no converter box, and I highly doubt there is a converter within the cable.

If it's a PAL console maybe. But the NTSC consoles don't support RGB output at all: http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:wi..._av_pinout

And without opening them you don't know if they have a converter inside. With that price range and size they could. But if they work with both NTSC and PAL consoles they have to.

shoober420 Wrote:I'll list some threads and videos of this problem below. This issue effects all VGA cables for the Wii. It doesn't matter which VGA cable you use, they all have the same issue.

Give me a minute to read through these and I'll get back to you when I have time.

shoober420 Wrote:CRT's are superior to LCD in everyway.

This is objectively false. There are plenty of genuine disadvantages that CRT displays have regardless of which you think is better.

shoober420 Wrote:Don't turn this thread into a CRT vs LCD debate.

We won't but we're also not going to let you post things about CRT and LCD technology that are blatantly wrong.

shoober420 Wrote:The reason there are fewer jaggy edges when using a LCD is because the image is being scaled so it looses picture qiality, and covers up the alasing artifacts much more. A LCD can only display its native resolution without the need to scale, which is why playing older systems on LCD's look like poop. They are being scaled and blurred (which is why you don't see jaggies as much). A CRT can display any resolution without the need to scale it, so it retains its detail and sharpness. Hence, why you can see more jaggies on polygons, because CRT's dont scale the image and blur it.

Completely wrong. Upscaling by nature makes aliasing more visible, not less. It makes it larger and thus more visible. Even if you don't understand the logic behind it you can easily test it yourself and verify it.

The lack of upscaling is not why crt displays have less visible aliasing.

shoober420 Wrote:CRT's do NOT color bleed in anyway. Only LCD's color bleed from scaling.

I don't know where you got this from but this is completely false. All phosphor displays exhibit some degree of color bleed. LCDs by nature do not. This is why CRT shaders always have a Gaussian blur or some other type of blur built in to mimic the effect. The color of pixels bleeds into neighboring pixels and causes a blur effect. This also has the side effect of reducing visible aliasing.

You can reduce the effect of this by reducing the voltage of the cathode ray emitter.

AnyOldName3 Wrote:It has been decided many times by people with really good eyes that LCD technology is now better than the pinnacle of CRT technology

No it hasn't. What people are you referring to?

@Scootaloo

Neither.

Edit:

shoober420 Wrote:LCD can only display at the most, 24-bit color, and that is only with the very best IPS displays.

30 bit panels have been widely available for ages. And 24 bit color has nothing to do with IPS, TN, or VA technology.

shoober420 Wrote:CRT can display true 32-bit color and HIGHER.

This is kind of true. But CRTs don't technically display digital signals at all. You can't compare them that way. Their color reproduction is limited by a number of other factors that don't have anything to do with bitdepth. I would also like to point out here that bit depth deals with color precision rather than gamut and that pretty much all content out there is 24 bit or lower anyways.

And 32 bit isn't a standard RGB bit depth. You won't find any graphics cards that support it. We have 30 bit RGB and we have 32 bit RGBA (24 bit RGB + 8 bit alpha).

I was meaning that some 'experts' claim non-CRT is best. I did not mean to say other 'experts' don't claim CRT is best. I was trying to explain that the superiority is not boolean, but got distracted because my brother is making me port forward his minecraft server, even though he's got a tutorial in front of him which I'm just following, and when I came back to finish my post I forgot what I was writing.

Still, the burned pig squeal means it's impossible to use a CRT screen without dying of an aneurysm, so I still say LCD is superior.

Lets not get into an opinionated CRT vs. LCD debate here. They each have pros and cons, and people have different opinions about which one is "better". I just don't like when somebody says "CRT's are superior to LCD in everyway" because that's just wrong. Plus if this turns out to be anything like shoobers other thread (which I already get the feeling that it will) we're going to have loads of stuff to respond to anyways. We don't need to add this on top of everything.