(06-19-2013, 06:04 AM)Zee530 Wrote: [ -> ]The XBox One emulator will not require an always online connection.
I don't think we will even need an emulator, more like compability layer, like Wine on Linux.
Maybe I am wrong, but that's my impression, it would be really weird if we have xbox one or ps4 "emulator" before xbox360 or ps3
Yeah.....no. We will definitely need an emulator.
(06-19-2013, 06:40 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah.....no. We will definitely need an emulator.
Doesn't emulator stand for emulating hardware ? Since both ps4 and xbone have pretty much the same hardware as pc, any program running next gen consoles games on pc wouldn't be a real emulator if it didn't emulate any of the hardware ?
I mean emulating software doesn't "count", Wine is emulating windows yet its name is acronym for "Wine Is Not an Emulator"
rpglord Wrote:Since both ps4 and xbone have pretty much the same hardware as pc
Rewind the clock 12 years. "Since the xbox has pretty much the same hardware as a pc we won't even have to emulate it!"
Everyone was saying that. But they were wrong. Just because it has the same cpu isa and a similar gpu microarchitecture doesn't mean that it's the same system. There is a lot more to a pc than that. It has different hardware and it has a very different OS. It will require an emulator. No question about it.
(06-19-2013, 07:02 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]Rewind the clock 12 years. "Since the xbox has pretty much the same hardware as a pc we won't even have to emulate it!"
Everyone was saying that. But they were wrong. Just because it has the same cpu isa and a similar gpu microarchitecture doesn't mean that it's the same system. There is a lot more to a pc than that. It has different hardware and it has a very different OS. It will require an emulator. No question about it.
Well the way I understand it there are two types of emulators, hardware/software ones and only software ones.
Some people obviously don't like to call the software ones emulators, as evident by Wine acronym.
I guess problem with xbox emulator was that even making software emulator proved to be difficult, that and general lack of interest.
The devkits/demo models used commercially available Windows 7 and nVidia GTX 7xx GPUs, according to Hexus. Then again, it was perhaps the most misleading article I've ever seen them publish.
Either way, this means if we sent a spy to work for the right bit of MS, then we could probably find some way of at least virtualising early developer builds of games.
On the subject of XBone OS being totally different, it uses a Win8 kernel (except the Devkits, which were made before Win8 was released), so that's another layer that could potentially be virtualised.
However, the final retail versions of games may be another issue entirely, and may not even run on a devkit.
@rpglord
No no no no and no.
First of all read this if you haven't already:
http://www.ngemu.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132032
rpglord Wrote:Well the way I understand it there is two types of emulators, hardware/software ones and only software ones.
If the hardware were exactly the same no emulation would be required at all to run the software.
rpglord Wrote:Some people obviously don't like to call the software ones emulators, as evident by Wine acronym.
That's because it's not an emulator in any way, shape, or form.
It's a hypervisor/virtual machine:
Stackoverflow Wrote:A hypervisor could be said to "emulate" protected access; it doesn't emulate the processor, though, and it would be more correct to say that it mediates protected access.
Protected access means things like setting up page tables or reading/writing I/O ports. For the former, a hypervisor validates (and usually modifies, to match the hypervisor's own memory) the page table operation and performs the protected instruction itself; I/O operations are mapped to emulated device hardware instead of emulated CPU.
rpglord Wrote:I guess problem with xbox emulator was that even making software emulator proved to be difficult, that and general lack of interest.
Yeah....no. You have a fundamental misunderstanding about this stuff. The xbox does in fact have different hardware and does require a full blown emulator. Just because it has an x86 cpu and nvidia gpu does not mean it's the same as a pc.
(06-19-2013, 07:20 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]If the hardware were exactly the same no emulation would be required at all to run the software.
Yeah but what if said software is made to run on different OS, one you can't install on the pc ?
For example OS might look for specific bios of the specific device which is not a pc
Wouldn't you still need to "emulate" or atleast hack the OS ?
(06-19-2013, 07:20 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah....no. You have a fundamental misunderstanding about this stuff. The xbox does in fact have different hardware and does require a full blown emulator. Just because it has an x86 cpu and nvidia gpu does not mean it's the same as a pc.
Yeah I dont know much about original xbox. Of course that just because gpu is made by nvidia it doesnt mean it's same as gpus they make for pc.
Even gpu for ps3 was made by nvidia, and of course that it doesn't mean it's same chip as on pc
What I was talking about is what if in reality it is same chip as pc products ?
Couldn't then we just use hypervisor/virtual machine instead of an emulator ?
I guess it's all comes down to just how different hardware of ps4/xbox one really is.
rpglord Wrote:Yeah but what if said software is made to run on different OS, one you can't install on the pc ?
For example OS might look for specific bios of the specific device which is not a pc
Wouldn't you still need to "emulate" or atleast hack the OS ?
If the bios is different I'm going to guess yes.
rpglord Wrote:Yeah I dont know much about original xbox. Of course that just because gpu is made by nvidia it doesnt mean it's same as gpus they make for pc.
Even gpu for ps3 was made by nvidia, and of course that it doesn't mean it's same chip as on pc
The point I'm trying to make though is that even if they are the same the cpu and gpu aren't the only two components in the system. People seem to forget this for some reason.
rpglord Wrote:What I was talking about is what if in reality it is same chip as pc products ?
They aren't though. They're extremely similar, but not the same. This is a misunderstanding that many people seem to have lately thanks to sony marketing x86 as a "feature" to people who don't have the slightest clue what it is (I'm not including you in this, I'm just saying I've seen it happen a lot lately).
rpglord Wrote:Couldn't then we just use hypervisor/virtual machine instead of an emulator ?
Maybe. There are a number of specific conditions that have to be true. We need more specific information to determine that.
rpglord Wrote:I guess it's all comes down to just how different hardware of ps4/xbox one really is.
Unless it's pretty much 100% identical to a pc at nearly every level it's going to need an emulator.
Just checking my post has been read. Some stuff seems to have been doubled up.