Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums - First Time Builder

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Asrock Z87 Extreme 4 has BIOS problem , you should not buy it atm
Either MSI Z87 G45 Gaming or that Gigabyte mobo is fine , Asus Sabertooth is overpriced crap
Rosewill-Newegg uses cheap components from China , it won't be very durable despite having 80+ gold modular whatever. Seasonic uses Japanese Caps , very high quality components . SeaSonic M12II 750W is the best choice in this case

Hey! Thanks for getting back so quickly Big Grin

The following motherboards are on sale at my local MicroCenter: MSI G41 for $60, Asus Z87-A for $110, ASRock Extreme4 for $105 , Gigabyte UD4H for $140, Asus Sabertooth for $215. MSI G45 Gaming is $150 atm, making me think the best value is the Gigabyte UD4H...but the extra $35 doesn't look good on my budget...
As you can see, MicroCenter sale prices are about $40 less than how much they are going for everywhere else.

The Rosewill PSU is manufactured by Super Flower (which I though was a good brand) and the XFX is manufactured by SeaSonic. The SeaSonic M12II 750W is $86 right now, whereas the XFX is $55. Since they are both manufactured by SeaSonic, aren't they comparable?

Just get MSI Z87 G41 and SeaSonic M12II 750W . You want your PC to last a very long time ...So the better PSU the longer it last
Base on newegg user's reviews , MSI Z87 G41 is pretty good

MSI G41 isn't SLI compatible though, so in that case I don't need a 750W PSU. Is the ASUS Z87-A not good? I worry about MSI motherboards, so if I skimp out and get the G41 I might later regret it. G41 means I won't be able to SLI and I may not get good overclocking out of it. It also might not be as durable as others. But it is also the cheapest option and the UD4H costs double... maybe the MSI is the very best value. I just wouldn't be able to SLI, but possibly by the time I want to SLI the CPU generation after Skymont will happen and I would be replacing the motherboard anyways. And then I could just buy a sound card, which would give me better sound over any RealTek chipset anyways, which I could re-use...
MSI G41 is $60
Sound card is about $30-50 (Asus Xonar DG, DGX, DS, DSX or Creative SB X-Fi Xtreme) - [[but then again, why spend $50 for a lackluster sound card that won't be significantly better than on-board audio? Only something like a Creative SB X-Fi Titanium HD would make a really huge difference, I think.]]
If only ASRock didn't have BIOS issues.

I trust you but I'm also doubtful. I know SeaSonic makes some of the best PSU, but for an $31 increase in price, when both the XFX and SeaSonic PSU are manufactured by SeaSonic? That's like paying $30 just for the brand name... (and the XFX 750W Gold costs the same as the SeaSonic 750W Bronze). Either way if I got the MSI G41 I wouldn't need a 750W PSU, so I would go for the SeaSonic G 550W, even though that costs $80, $10 less than the XFX 750W Gold. (I'm trying to stick with SeaSonic manufactured PSU, and no matter which way I put it right now the XFX 750W Bronze one is the cheapest)

And here I thought I was almost done picking my parts! I was so close, and yet so far away...

So how did you go from:

turtlefu Wrote:Do I want to spend an extra $400 on the luxury of playing a Wii in 1080p?

To dual GTX 760s, an audio card, and a 750 watt PSU?

Did you win the lottery while you were gone?

turtlefu Wrote:My friends have abandoned me in disgust because all I can talk about are computers

Clearly you need some friends that aren't technology illiterate.

turtlefu Wrote:(especially because by then the price of the 760 should go down)

Don't count on it.

turtlefu Wrote:so I'm thinking about including a 750W PSU. Is that even a good idea?

With dual GPUs it's pretty much required. You could probably get away with 650 watts though. I haven't done the calculations yet.

turtlefu Wrote:Motherboard: Is the ASRock Extreme4 good enough for overclocking and SLI? My goal is a 4.3 GHz overclock on the 4670K, don't know if that is possible. I know you can get up to 4.5 GHz but I don't know if I want to pay the extra money for an Asus Sabertooth board (which costs $110 more, and the Gigabyte UD4H costs $35 more than the ASrock Extreme4).

Motherboards shouldn't have any impact on OCing anymore now that the VRM is integrated. As long as it's a Z87 board you should be good.

turtlefu Wrote:SSD: I might be able to get a Samsung 840 SSD for $80, but the 840 Pro is $130. I'm guessing the new controller is not worth the extra $50? Non-sale price on the 840 is $100.

Get the regular 840.

turtlefu Wrote:RAM: As for memory, are all brands equal?

All reputable brands are equal, yes.

turtlefu Wrote:I can get Crucial Ballistix for $58 and Corsair Vengeance for $60.

Get at least 1600MHz and get one that has small heatsinks.

turtlefu Wrote:And is it wise to get 8GB now and add another 8GB later for a total 16GB when I need it?

Yes.

turtlefu Wrote:Case: The Corsair 500R is $75, the Fractal Design Define R4 is $80. 500R gets better cooling performance, but is supposedly less roomy and a little bit louder. Also I think the R4 comes with filters making it easier to clean? The Enermax Ostrog GT is also the same price as the Corsair 500R.

Get the corsair. You won't be disappointed.

turtlefu Wrote:Cooling: Is it a good idea to pay $5 more for the Cooler Master Seidon 120M water cooler? It supposedly gets better thermal performance, which might be useful if I decide to overclock above 4.3 GHz. It's on sale right now for $35, and it seems like on average it's about 6 degrees cooler than the Hyper 212 EVO and 4 degrees hotter than the Corsair H80 (which costs $50 more)

Why are you even getting liquid cooling in this price range?

turtlefu Wrote:Remember, I want to build something that can last as long as possible and I want to re-use as many of the parts as much as possible for future builds.

The only parts that are reusable long term are case, graphics card, psu, hdd/ssd, ODD, and sometimes ram (ddr4 will be out by the time you upgrade though, so not in your case).

admin89 Wrote:Asus Sabertooth is overpriced crap

But they're so pretty!

turtlefu Wrote:The SeaSonic M12II 750W is $86 right now, whereas the XFX is $55. Since they are both manufactured by SeaSonic, aren't they comparable?

Check the specs. Just because they're from the same company and have the same rated wattage doesn't mean the specs are comparable.

turtlefu Wrote:The following motherboards are on sale at my local MicroCenter: MSI G41 for $60, Asus Z87-A for $110, ASRock Extreme4 for $105 , Gigabyte UD4H for $140, Asus Sabertooth for $215. MSI G45 Gaming is $150 atm, making me think the best value is the Gigabyte UD4H...but the extra $35 doesn't look good on my budget...

Make sure it's the MSI Z87 G41. There are lot of different MSI G41 motherboards.

That goes for any of these boards. Make sure they are the Z87 versions.

I don't like MSI personally but admin is right. Their Z87 boards are cheap and well rated/reviewed.

And admin is right about Japanese capacitors. Japanese engineering is always superior Tongue

. In my experience with electronics, cars, and high pressure water filtration they always have the best stuff.

turtlefu Wrote:MSI G41 isn't SLI compatible though, so in that case I don't need a 750W PSU.

Indeed. You will need a pricier board if you want SLI support.

turtlefu Wrote:Is the ASUS Z87-A not good?

It's good. It's also more expensive.

turtlefu Wrote:G41 means I won't be able to SLI and I may not get good overclocking out of it.

See above. It won't matter for OCing.

turtlefu Wrote:It also might not be as durable as others. But it is also the cheapest option and the UD4H costs double... maybe the MSI is the very best value. I just wouldn't be able to SLI, but possibly by the time I want to SLI the CPU generation after Skymont will happen and I would be replacing the motherboard anyways. And then I could just buy a sound card, which would give me better sound over any RealTek chipset anyways, which I could re-use...
MSI G41 is $60

You're going to have to make some choices based on how much horsepower and flexibility you want. Personally I don't think you should care about SLI. By the time you're ready to throw in a second card there will be new cards 2-3 times as fast at the same price.

turtlefu Wrote:Sound card is about $30-50 (Asus Xonar DG, DGX, DS, DSX or Creative SB X-Fi Xtreme) - [[but then again, why spend $50 for a lackluster sound card that won't be significantly better than on-board audio? Only something like a Creative SB X-Fi Titanium HD would make a really huge difference, I think.]]
If only ASRock didn't have BIOS issues.

Audio cards are a lot like graphics cards in this regard. No matter how low you go it's still miles better than integrated.

What kind of audio setup do you have anyways?

turtlefu Wrote:I trust you but I'm also doubtful. I know SeaSonic makes some of the best PSU, but for an $31 increase in price, when both the XFX and SeaSonic PSU are manufactured by SeaSonic? That's like paying $30 just for the brand name... (and the XFX 750W Gold costs the same as the SeaSonic 750W Bronze). Either way if I got the MSI G41 I wouldn't need a 750W PSU, so I would go for the SeaSonic G 550W, even though that costs $80, $10 less than the XFX 750W Gold. (I'm trying to stick with SeaSonic manufactured PSU, and no matter which way I put it right now the XFX 750W Bronze one is the cheapest)

See above.

As an owner of an MSI Z87 G45 Gaming, I can say I have absolutely no problem with it (except the first time I installed the network drivers, it went wrong). I haven't got round to overclocking yet, though.

Good to see you again NaturalViolence. Miss me? Big Grin

ong story short, I tweaked the build so much my budget increased Smile

, I was going to buy a pre-built computer that had everything I wanted for only a $100 above DIY prive but then I decided I might as well sink that extra money into getting better components. It might not be realistic but you are the one who told me $1000 is the sweet spot (after one person telling me $600 is, then $800...)

The MicroCenter deal is that if you buy a 1150 Socket Processor, you can get a Z87 motherboard at a discount (it's a bundle). The following motherboards can be bought at a discounted price:
MSI Z87-G41 for $60
ASRock Z87 Pro4 for $75
Gigabyte GA-Z87-D3HP for $90
MSI Z87-G45 for $100
ASRock Z87-Extreme4 for $105
ASUS Z87-A for $110
Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD$H for $140
ASUS Z87 Sabertooth for $220
So what's the best deal? I, too, am wary of MSI motherboards. After all, the MSI motherboard that I currently have has a buggy PCI slot and gets an error if you try to boot while something is plugged into the rear USB ports.

I figured the price of the GTX 760 might go down, because right now you can get a GTX 660 for as low as $170 (just saw it on sale!), but you may be right, maybe SLI isn't a good idea.

Here are the PSU, compared: newegg

Tom's Hardware did a review of some Z87 motherboards which showed that there is a very slight difference in overclocking capabilities.

The RAM on sale is Crucial Ballistix Sport 1600 C9 1.5V for $58 or 16GB (2x8GB) for $100.

The Seidon is only $5 more than the Hyper 212 EVO, yet I've read tests that show it gets slightly better cooling, which would be good for OCing.

Some people are saying the onboard chipset on the ASRock Extreme4 (which is the same as the one on the MSI G45) is roughly comparable to an Asus Xonor DGX sound card, which can be bought for $30.

@AnyOldName3
Have you used OC Genie at all?

Quote: Have you used OC Genie at all?

Manual overclocks are always safer, as automatic overclocking always puts the voltage too high, and then that can damage the CPU over time.

Also, I was going to get the ASRock Extreme4, but for the BIOS issue.

Oops , I forgot about SLI
ASRock Z87 Pro4 doesn't seem to have Bios problem
Make sure you get the full size , not micro ATX (full size version has gold caps Tongue

)
Gigabyte GA-Z87-D3HP is also a good board

turtlefu Wrote:It might not be realistic but you are the one who told me $1000 is the sweet spot (after one person telling me $600 is, then $800...)

turtlefu Wrote:Here are the PSU, compared

The problem is newegg doesn't list most of the important specs in their comparisons. And out of the specs that are listed half of them are missing from one product or another.

And they're only $5 apart. Well $10 if you account for the rebate, which you do but I don't. $15 if you account for shipping and handling too. The XFX is likely going to be fine.

turtlefu Wrote:Tom's Hardware did a review of some Z87 motherboards which showed that there is a very slight difference in overclocking capabilities.

2% variation is within margin of error. The only mobo. out of place was the ECS. And that's to be expected since ECS hardware is complete garbage that often makes the reference designs look good by comparison.

turtlefu Wrote:The RAM on sale is Crucial Ballistix Sport 1600 C9 1.5V for $58 or 16GB (2x8GB) for $100.

Very nice low profile heatsinks. Get a 2 x 4GB (8GB) kit if you can find one.

turtlefu Wrote:The Seidon is only $5 more than the Hyper 212 EVO, yet I've read tests that show it gets slightly better cooling, which would be good for OCing.

Without MIR it's almost twice the price on newegg. With MIR it's still $15 more. Where are you getting it from?

In this price range AIO liquid cooling is usually beat by similarly priced air coolers. And they're larger, harder to install, have a risk of leaking, and position heavily impacts their performance thanks to gravity and fluid pressure.

turtlefu Wrote:Some people are saying the onboard chipset on the ASRock Extreme4 (which is the same as the one on the MSI G45) is roughly comparable to an Asus Xonor DGX sound card, which can be bought for $30.

That is likely correct. Asrock has put a great deal of effort into adding decent audio components to its higher end Z87 boards.

You still haven't answered my question about your audio setup though so I don't know what to recommend.

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