(04-21-2013, 12:28 AM)AnyOldName3 Wrote: [ -> ]They commit it so that others can help them get it into a state where it can be used by the average user. They don't want people who are going to make it harder to do in the future meddling, though, much in the same way as they don't want anyone pushing anything which breaks stuff to master.
How can people help without the information to dump the required files? Wouldn't the process of development (consistently testing ways to communicate to the server using the same ID) cause Nintendo to catch on anyways? Committing broken stuff to master is a different story, as it causes people to complain and invalidates the latest build. Using the wii-network builds does not damage Dolphin's master branch and causes no problems as it is completely optional and people know what they're getting into.
Rhys: So basically I take it that you want to be able to use these builds, but you lack the files needed to do so. You are not happy about this, and so you're trying come up with reasons as to why people should be using these builds? Basically, when the developers say that this isn't ready for you to use, that answer is not acceptable to you?
(04-21-2013, 01:41 AM)Starscream Wrote: [ -> ]Rhys: So basically I take it that you want to be able to use these builds, but you lack the files needed to do so. You are not happy about this, and so you're trying come up with reasons as to why people should be using these builds? Basically, when the developers say that this isn't ready for you to use, that answer is not acceptable to you?
I already have the files and even created a tool for dumping them, and am looking for ways I could potentially help. What I'm debating is why other people should not be given information, and why I had to jump through hoops to find even the vague area which contains the certificates when it is already known.
(04-21-2013, 01:23 AM)Rhys Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2013, 12:28 AM)AnyOldName3 Wrote: [ -> ]They commit it so that others can help them get it into a state where it can be used by the average user. They don't want people who are going to make it harder to do in the future meddling, though, much in the same way as they don't want anyone pushing anything which breaks stuff to master.
How can people help without the information to dump the required files? Wouldn't the process of development (consistently testing ways to communicate to the server using the same ID) cause Nintendo to catch on anyways? Committing broken stuff to master is a different story, as it causes people to complain and invalidates the latest build. Using the wii-network builds does not damage Dolphin's master branch and causes no problems as it is completely optional and people know what they're getting into.
People who can help us have the required files. We do not need general feedback about it yet.
If it's so hard to understand, too bad for you, these kind of things will most likely stay completely private in the future instead of being semi-public. We developers don't really lose anything by doing that.
(04-20-2013, 11:05 PM)Rhys Wrote: [ -> ] (04-07-2013, 10:23 AM)Xalphenos Wrote: [ -> ]Just curious. If you had your own nand dump would it not use the friend code found in it? For instance if I load the system menu and then go check my friend code on dolphin it is the same code my actual wii has. To clarify this is on master branch.
Yes, the friend code information is bundled with saves, so if you dump your NAND and extract it into Dolphin your saves will keep their respective friend codes.
Nobody is "using the developer's friend code", friend codes are uniquely generated every time they're requested, even if the wii ID has already been used (multiple licenses in mk wii, creating a new save in ac wii). What they may be using is the developer's console ID(s), if anything. If something like that were committed, that's pretty much just asking to be banned from WFC.
If you didn't want people to use and experiment with the Wii Network code, why commit it? Isn't that the whole point of open source?
This is completely wrong and you don't know what you're talking about. Friend codes are not stored in saves and using the friend code from a NAND dump from your Wii in Dolphin won't work because the Broadway SN does not match the one currently hardcoded in Dolphin. And yes, "that's pretty much just asking to be banned from WFC", assuming people abuse it. Guess what, developers are careful about not abusing it. Stupid people are not. Still wondering why we don't want people testing this?
(04-21-2013, 01:55 AM)delroth Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2013, 01:23 AM)Rhys Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2013, 12:28 AM)AnyOldName3 Wrote: [ -> ]They commit it so that others can help them get it into a state where it can be used by the average user. They don't want people who are going to make it harder to do in the future meddling, though, much in the same way as they don't want anyone pushing anything which breaks stuff to master.
How can people help without the information to dump the required files? Wouldn't the process of development (consistently testing ways to communicate to the server using the same ID) cause Nintendo to catch on anyways? Committing broken stuff to master is a different story, as it causes people to complain and invalidates the latest build. Using the wii-network builds does not damage Dolphin's master branch and causes no problems as it is completely optional and people know what they're getting into.
People who can help us have the required files.
You are not the only developers in the world. You're not going to get any real help from outside people interested in developing the wii network branch if you force them to scrounge around in a 512MB size NAND full of thousands of files to find the data required, and then delete threads/posts when anyone posts information as to where the file containing the data is. The only snippet of information I found on it was a quote on a german forum from a post which has been since deleted for whatever reason. It didn't even divulge in the slightest how to extract the certificate, just that they actually existed. That isn't very encouraging.
delroth Wrote:This is completely wrong and you don't know what you're talking about. Friend codes are not stored in saves and using the friend code from a NAND dump from your Wii in Dolphin won't work because the Broadway SN does not match the one currently hardcoded in Dolphin. And yes, "that's pretty much just asking to be banned from WFC", assuming people abuse it. Guess what, developers are careful about not abusing it. Stupid people are not. Still wondering why we don't want people testing this?
Friend code =/= Broadway Serial Number. The friend code is an assigned number generated for a console based on its broadway serial number. If you meant that people were using that, you could have said in the first place instead of giving inaccurate information and then acting as if I am stupid for "not knowing what i'm talking about". People are NOT using a developer's friend codes, just the same Broadway ID.
EDIT:
https://code.google.com/p/dolphin-emu/source/detail?name=wii-network&r=bca2cac640e4aff69a97b919411855d0e4b305da
As of that revision, the broadway id is retrieved from a dumped keys.bin, so that is not a problem anyways. Just had to read over it to verify that it wasn't just cosmetic.
(04-21-2013, 01:58 AM)delroth Wrote: [ -> ] (04-20-2013, 11:05 PM)Rhys Wrote: [ -> ] (04-07-2013, 10:23 AM)Xalphenos Wrote: [ -> ]Just curious. If you had your own nand dump would it not use the friend code found in it? For instance if I load the system menu and then go check my friend code on dolphin it is the same code my actual wii has. To clarify this is on master branch.
Yes, the friend code information is bundled with saves, so if you dump your NAND and extract it into Dolphin your saves will keep their respective friend codes.
Nobody is "using the developer's friend code", friend codes are uniquely generated every time they're requested, even if the wii ID has already been used (multiple licenses in mk wii, creating a new save in ac wii). What they may be using is the developer's console ID(s), if anything. If something like that were committed, that's pretty much just asking to be banned from WFC.
If you didn't want people to use and experiment with the Wii Network code, why commit it? Isn't that the whole point of open source?
This is completely wrong and you don't know what you're talking about. Friend codes are not stored in saves and using the friend code from a NAND dump from your Wii in Dolphin won't work because the Broadway SN does not match the one currently hardcoded in Dolphin. And yes, "that's pretty much just asking to be banned from WFC", assuming people abuse it. Guess what, developers are careful about not abusing it. Stupid people are not. Still wondering why we don't want people testing this?
Thanks for clarifying delroth. I figured out how to get the files required but I haven't/wont use the network branch out of respect, and I'm not a developer so it wouldn't help anyway.
Out of more curiosity though would it be possible to change the hardcoded broadway SN in dolphin if you where compiling from source?
If you can how would you go about finding out your systems SN?
(04-21-2013, 02:04 AM)Rhys Wrote: [ -> ]You are not the only developers in the world. You're not going to get any real help from outside people interested in developing the wii network branch if you force them to scrounge around in a 512MB size NAND full of thousands of files to find the data required, and then delete threads/posts when anyone posts information as to where the file containing the data is. The only snippet of information I found on it was a quote on a german forum from a post which has been since deleted for whatever reason. It didn't even divulge in the slightest how to extract the certificate, just that they actually existed. That isn't very encouraging.
I've always been quite open about how to get the certs if you knew a little about SSL. I think I once posted publicly about what the files were, where they were (in IOS binaries related to the SSL module) and what format they were encoded in (DER). "People interested in developing the wii network branch" were clearly more interested in developing a tool to automate extraction of the certs.
We did not have a single person come and ask us for help to work on wii-network yet. Now that the procedure to get the SSL certs has been documented on a public place, we still haven't got a single new contribution to the wii-network branch, only Youtube videos of people saying "look, I can play with Dolphin online". What a surprise.
Being public about development in early stages has never really been a good thing in Dolphin for the last 2 years. People don't seem very interested in "giving back" to the development anyway. I'm tired of this: we get the annoying people asking every 5 minutes about stuff and reporting issues we clearly know about, and never anyone interested by the code and contributing. Why bother?
(04-21-2013, 06:02 AM)delroth Wrote: [ -> ] (04-21-2013, 02:04 AM)Rhys Wrote: [ -> ]You are not the only developers in the world. You're not going to get any real help from outside people interested in developing the wii network branch if you force them to scrounge around in a 512MB size NAND full of thousands of files to find the data required, and then delete threads/posts when anyone posts information as to where the file containing the data is. The only snippet of information I found on it was a quote on a german forum from a post which has been since deleted for whatever reason. It didn't even divulge in the slightest how to extract the certificate, just that they actually existed. That isn't very encouraging.
I've always been quite open about how to get the certs if you knew a little about SSL. I think I once posted publicly about what the files were, where they were (in IOS binaries related to the SSL module) and what format they were encoded in (DER). "People interested in developing the wii network branch" were clearly more interested in developing a tool to automate extraction of the certs.
We did not have a single person come and ask us for help to work on wii-network yet. Now that the procedure to get the SSL certs has been documented on a public place, we still haven't got a single new contribution to the wii-network branch, only Youtube videos of people saying "look, I can play with Dolphin online". What a surprise.
Being public about development in early stages has never really been a good thing in Dolphin for the last 2 years. People don't seem very interested in "giving back" to the development anyway. I'm tired of this: we get the annoying people asking every 5 minutes about stuff and reporting issues we clearly know about, and never anyone interested by the code and contributing. Why bother?
Maybe they're not interested in developing for Dolphin because of this kind of reaction. Your intolerance for new/uninformed users is outstanding and it's visible in every thread,
nobody would want to work alongside someone like that if they feel they were to get shot down every time they asked how a certain part of Dolphin worked or other. That's what it seems like from what I see in nearly all of the questions threads, and that's why I'm not interested. You should "bother" trying to be tolerant to attract developers and get a lot more going on in the project.
I posted the video and tool in public since that's where it should be, it should be this easy and since people need to dump their own keys.bin with their own hollywood ID,
they are personally responsible for any disruption they cause on WFC and risk getting their own real consoles banned. I wanted to show that it is possible and that it is in fact, really fucking cool that it works so well at this stage. Parlane has done a fantastic job so far.