Nerrel Wrote:The law of diminishing returns kicks in pretty hard after 4.5ghz though, possibly even 4.4. It starts requiring a lot more voltage for each decimal increase, and even though it's still safely possible it's not really worth it considering how small a difference adding 0.1 or 0.2ghz will make.
But if you can keep it stable and you don't really care about the extra power consumption than there really is no downside.
(03-18-2013, 06:13 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]Nerrel Wrote:The law of diminishing returns kicks in pretty hard after 4.5ghz though, possibly even 4.4. It starts requiring a lot more voltage for each decimal increase, and even though it's still safely possible it's not really worth it considering how small a difference adding 0.1 or 0.2ghz will make.
But if you can keep it stable and you don't really care about the extra power consumption than there really is no downside.
^^ This
and yeah... With a haswell equivlant of a 2500k/3570k u could probably get away with stock or even 4ghz overclock if were lucky....
im personally gonna keep my 3570k for 2 gens unti Emulation requires something faster than a 4.8-5ghz Ivy bridge which is my max point.
who knows what kind of accuracy improvements will happen in 2 years
The 2x00K CPUs are still the best choice for dolphin, except for the 3x00k CPUs.
a 3x00K will be as fast as a 2x00K at slightly lower clock, ex: 3x00K@4.3GHz = 2x00K@4.5GHz.
Unless a 2500k is quite a bit cheaper than the 3570k, then get the 3570k.
I'm one of the guys that bought 2500K after 3570K was released, but that was because they had a significant stock of 2500K left and sold them at a nice discount once they got the 3570K in stock.
I friend of mine recently got a 2700k at the same price as a 3570k, but you need to look around for those deals, and it can help that you live in a small country like me, where people have too much money and always want the latest stuff, regardless of what it will cost them.
If you get the 2500k with a nice discount go for it, as it is usually a bit easier to over clock compared to a 3570k, but as said, you need to beat the 3570k with roughly 0.2GHz to get the same kind of power.
There are also on the flip side with the 2500k. Intel hd 3k vs 4k, but then again, who uses igp on a desktop
The 2500k also use a bit more power.
The 3570k was a minor bump over the 2500k, but before that 2500k was a huge leap from the i5-760 and the i5-760 was a huge leap from the E8x00 series before that.
(03-18-2013, 02:29 AM)admin89 Wrote: [ -> ]Because i5 4670k @ 4.5GHz is faster than i5 2500k @ 5.0GHz
Can you explain in lamens terms why this is? Why is a chip such as the i5 4670k faster @ 4.5Ghz than an older i5 2500k @ 5.0Ghz? Aren't clock frequency speeds absolute?
I did a math . Haswell is 10% faster than Ivy
4.5*10% = 0.45
4.5 + 0.45 = 4.95GHz (Ivy)
Do the same math with Sandy & Ivy
_Minimum : 5% gain = 5.2GHz (Sandy)
_Average : 10% gain = 5.45GHz (Sandy)
i5 4670k @ 4.5GHz is at least as fast as i5 2500k @ 5.2GHz
(03-19-2013, 12:17 AM)isamu Wrote: [ -> ]Aren't clock frequency speeds absolute?
Yes but the amount of work a given cpu can do in one cycle is not. Clock frequency won't mean the same amount of work for cpus of different families.
admin89 Wrote:Haswell is 10% faster than Ivy
We don't know that yet.
isamu Wrote:Can you explain in lamens terms why this is? Why is a chip such as the i5 4670k faster @ 4.5Ghz than an older i5 2500k @ 5.0Ghz? Aren't clock frequency speeds absolute?
These are complex integrated circuits consisting of millions (or billions) of nanoscopic electronic components interconnected by multilayered nanoscopic copper wires. Oddly enough the performance of their designs are a bit more complicated than "what's the frequency of the clock signal?". Who would have thought designs that have been refined over decades by teams of hundreds (or thousands) of the top electronic engineers in the world are more difficult to understand than that? Ok I'm getting a bit too sarcastic here but you get my point. You can't reduce the architectures capabilities down to any single number. If they were that simple we wouldn't need to spend billions of dollars hiring the smartest people on the planet to design them.
Also what do you mean by absolute? Do you mean static? As in the clock frequency never changes (which is wrong)? Or do you mean that it is the only measurement of "speed" (which is also wrong)?
cluthz Wrote:If you get the 2500k with a nice discount go for it, as it is usually a bit easier to over clock compared to a 3570k, but as said, you need to beat the 3570k with roughly 0.2GHz to get the same kind of power.
Change that to 0.4 GHz (about 10%) for most applications. Though for dolphin it may indeed be 0.2GHz.
cluthz Wrote:There are also on the flip side with the 2500k. Intel hd 3k vs 4k, but then again, who uses igp on a desktop
Are you implying that Haswell is nothing more than an updated IGP?
(03-19-2013, 08:05 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]Are you implying that Haswell is nothing more than an updated IGP?
No, he's saying that the only thing that the 3570K has over the 2500K (other than a few more megahertz), is a slightly better IGP that most desktop users wouldn't be using anyway, so it's irrelevant.
Then why is "Intel hd 3k vs 4k" in that sentence?
Edit: Oh. He means the 3k and 4k IGP series not the 3k and 4k cpu series. I completely glanced over the "HD" part.
Yeah a bit unclear on my part.
I don't know how 4xxx will perform over 3xxx.
I think I covered most parts with 2500k vs 3570k, and I just added the IGP, thus the hd 3k vs hd 4k.
The 3570k is undoubtedly the better CPU vs 2500k, however in my case I got the 2500k 25% cheaper than the 3570k due to excess stock at my preferred dealer.
I don't know what prices the OP have gotten on 2500k vs the 3570k, but if the 2500k is considerably cheaper, then it might be the best option for the money.
I went from an E8500 to a 2500k, and dolphin is very responsive. I don't own the SMG games, but The Last story runs at 30 FPS all the time, except I've seen a few drops to like 28 in Lazulis city, which I really wouldn't have noticed unless I had the FPS counter on. I'm currently running at 4.3GHz with 4.4GHz boost on 1,2 and 3 cores and so far it has no issues with my current games. I have run the CPU on 4.6GHz too, with no issues, but I really don't see a reason to do that as it doesn't really give me any benefits for now. Although it's nice to know in the future that I can squeeze out a few extra mhz, when I need it.
I do believe that 4.8GHz will be possible, as 4.6 was stable with good temps and only minor increases to vcore, but I don't see any reason to push my luck. Form previous experience I did push my E8500 a bit each year and peaking 4.05Ghz before I got the 2500k.
In other games I play I really haven't seen any boost OC'ing at all. But The Last Story was was in my eyes only borderline playable at stock speeds, where Lazulis was below 30 FPS pretty much all the time and drops to like 20FPS from time to time.
As for cost effective solutions for dolphin (for the more demanding games) it kinda boils down to the prices you get on 2500k vs 3570k, because the equivalent i7's are considerably more expensive and AMD is kinda not an option at all.