Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

RachelB Wrote:That's really not how it works.

The code is a bit different but it has the exact same end result. You can test it yourself if you do not believe me. Also remember this post that I made awhile back:

NaturalViolence Wrote:Both IR and SSAA raise the actual IR. They are both equally demanding if the same IR is reached.

The IR setting represents the scale applied to each axis. You can calculate the effect on total resolution by squaring it. So for example a 2x IR settings gives you 4x IR (2^2 = 4). Setting IR to 3x gives you 9x the IR (3^2 = 9). SSAA also increases the IR but the SSAA settings represent the total increase in resolution. So 4x SSAA actually increases your IR by 4x. To get your total IR you simple multiply the square of your IR setting by the number of SSAA samples (use 1 if SSAA is disabled).

So:
4x IR ((4^2) x 1) = 16x
3x IR + 4xSSAA ((3^2) x 4) = 36x

As you can see 3x IR + 4xSSAA is a lot more demanding. Not because SSAA is inherently more demanding but because the total IR is higher with this particular combination.

See how confusing this is? The IR setting was originally called "efb scale" which was a much better description of what it does but people were confused by that term so they changed it to "internal resolution". However settings the "internal resolution" to 2x doesn't double the IR, it quadruples it. Which is why I still think that it should either be renamed back to efb scale or the option strings should be renamed to reflect the increase in IR rather than the scale applied to each axis.

2xSSAA will not be added because 2 is not a perfect square. Therefore it would require either only scaling one axis or using a fractional scale. While this is possible it would not be very effective with a standard box or bilinear filter.

If SSAA was done properly in dolphin RachelB's statement would be correct. This is because SSAA like all forms of AA is supposed to use a filter that is specifically designed to eliminate aliasing. However in our case it doesn't. Ever since neobrain broke it using no SSAA or 4x SSAA results in the exact same filter being used, the only difference is the IR. Since I know RachelB will want confirmation of this here is the relevant code:
https://code.google.com/p/dolphin-emu/source/browse/Source/Plugins/Plugin_VideoDX9/Src/PixelShaderCache.cpp#185

In other words 4xSSAA has exactly the same effect as doubling your IR setting. The 9xSSAA setting however does have its own filter and it is quite effective at eliminating aliasing. Unfortunately the IR increase it produces will obliterate your performance even on the strongest graphics cards when using a high IR setting. However if you don't use a high IR settings with 9xSSAA the filter will produce an extremely blurry image. So as a result I don't recommend using it.

You can force proper SSAA through nvidia inspector (requires an nvidia card) if you know what you're doing but it comes with a nasty performance hit usually hovering around 15-20% even with a strong graphics card. I have no idea if CCCs built in SSAA works with dolphin but I really doubt it since you have to change the compatibility bits in nvidia inspector to get SSAA working there.

Raising dolphins IR whether you do it through the SSAA setting or the IR settings reduces aliasing and sharpens textures. The level of improvement you see from increasing it drops significantly once the actual IR passes your screen resolution but there is still improvement. It's not a perfect solution so like RachelB said without driver forced AA you will still see some aliasing at crazy high IR scales.

I've been pestering neobrain about this for years now to no avail. So I doubt it will be fixed anytime soon. Plus the devs keep talking about eliminating or at least deprecating the d3d9 backend quite seriously.

I think I adequately explained my reasoning.

rpglord Wrote:Why do you say that ? SSAA or full-scene anti-aliasing ( FSAA ) is rendering whole image at higher resolutions, then scaling it down.

If SSAA wasn't broken in dolphin he would be right. SSAA uses specific downscaling filters and resolutions targeted at removing aliasing (usually a box filter with an equal integer scale applied to the base resolution along each axis).

yodenny Wrote:wouldn't all that be unnecessary since you cant see the difference on your monitor i mean doesn't raising the res make it look sharper and less blocky and blurry too a certain point where you cant see a difference i feel like there is no point unless you had a huge tv and wanted to make it fit the screen or correct me if im wrong

isamu Wrote:cough*downsampling*cough

Please read the long post that I quoted above. Both of you.

neobrain Wrote:gz, you just named a feature Dolphin doesn't support

Wut? The only other way to display a higher resolution than your screen resolution is by cropping. Even if you let d3d take care of it for you at the hardware/driver level you're still technically downscaling. Plus you fixed a scaling issue literally a month or two ago!

(03-16-2013, 01:18 AM)isamu Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-15-2013, 03:09 PM)Starscream Wrote: [ -> ]There is something in the works to allow any IR you'd like, but until then you can use my custom builds here to use at least 5xIR -> http://forums.dolphin-emu.org/Thread-unofficial-0-5xir-and-5xir-build

wait a second....*ANY IR???? Even up to 10x?

Or .01 IR!

(03-16-2013, 05:08 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]

neobrain Wrote:gz, you just named a feature Dolphin doesn't support

Wut? The only other way to display a higher resolution than your screen resolution is by cropping. Even if you let d3d take care of it for you at the hardware/driver level you're still technically downscaling. Plus you fixed a scaling issue literally a month or two ago!

Linear filtering doesn't use more than 4 texture samples, so even if pixel<->texel alignment was correct, an IR above twice the width and height of the display resolution is completely useless.

It's still downscaling. You claimed that dolphin doesn't do any downscaling.

Also if dolphin uses that method than why do resolutions about 2x2 fract show further improvement to image quality?

Yo, I don't have the time to get into this again :p

neobrain Wrote:Yo, I don't have the time to get into this again

This implies that you've talked about this before. And if that's the case you can just link the post or post the IRC log.

It's not about you, NaturalViolence. It's me :p

Thanks guys! I didn't know dx9 had SSAA! I may just use that for now and deal.

It's all about removing that god damn temporal aliasing. Shimmery image quality bugs the hell out of my eyes. I wish I could make regular PC games look as good as what the downsampling in dolphin lets us do

Man, I can't wait until 4k monitors become a proper affordable thing. By the time that comes we should hopefully have gpu+cpu combos that let us go full speed on that for pretty much everything right out of the gate.

4k SMG2 full speed on a 50 inch OLED screen.

*drools*

Who knows, by then, even WiiU emulation...I'd love to usb an android tablet to my PC to use in conjunction for WiiU games....hell better yet the actual wiiu gamepad.

(03-16-2013, 10:46 AM)SiriusTexra Wrote: [ -> ]Who knows, by then, even WiiU emulation...I'd love to usb an android tablet to my PC to use in conjunction for WiiU games....hell better yet the actual wiiu gamepad.

Keep dreaming.

ok so ill simplify my statement what im trying to say is that raising the ir improves quality and sharpness ok i get that but what im saying is the quality of the game and sharpness of it would cease to look any more better when you raise it waaay past your native res

and on a side note (with little pc game experience) doesnt the anti-aliasing just improve the shadows?