(07-27-2009, 03:06 AM)Iulius Wrote: [ -> ]you dont seem to have that theoretical knowledge.
just google for cisc vs risc, it may enlights your life 
@ comparison : the cake is a lie !
first 3 testet revs use the old framebuffer copy method.
3761 does not, which means the fps are NOT related to gamespeed.
you can easily produce many 100s of fps in any game with that rev and a decent graphics card.
but that does not nessecarily mean that the games run any better cause dolphin just shows the same picture over and over again.
Can not seem ... But yes I have! The last 3 years I dedicated myself to this! And I understand perfectly how it works! But I am "DESIGNER / CHARACTER DESIGNER ... I have no intimacy with programming ... But I understand perfectly the aspects of hardware an programming.
As professional web, of course I understand that processing RISCXSISC ... This is not news to me!
Note: Do not consider my comments as offensive or this forum become a place much worse! I'm trying to help improve the performance of the emulator! I am helping give a "hint" about what I "think" (just think) that is not good that the consumption of processor ...
(07-27-2009, 07:30 AM)KrazyTrumpeter05 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-26-2009, 10:09 PM)guiferreira Wrote: [ -> ] (07-25-2009, 11:48 PM)FloW3184 Wrote: [ -> ]you surely have no idea of how this works! xD
you just made me LOL
be glad the emulator uses all processing power it gets!
imagine if it would use only 50%.... (try turning off dualcore mode and see the fps drop because the emulator only uses 50% 
)
i would be glad if it could use 100% of my 4 phenom2 cores (i know it can't ^^) 
Well .. Let me explain ... PC Games, the last generation that is much heavier textures and "millions" of the polygons more ... Do not use much processing power. Understand? The processor of a game cube is 400mghz! Much less than a dualcore and does the same work and even better! Ie? The dual core processor be used 100% indicates that the emulator is working "heavy" when it should not! I say this as a "hint" for those who develops ... I am also a programmer and I develop in some 3d engines and know the procedures ... But ... No program in languages such as C + +, LUA and assembly ... Only that I have theoretical knowledge.
RAM matters...if you don't have enough, things will go slow. Slow speed RAM has an impact too.
Internal resolution matters for speed as well. If you have a crappy graphics card with little VRAM, playing in higher resolutions will slow you down. If you have a good gfx card (8600 or better) with a good amount of VRAM, internal resolution won't matter to you.
Also...how many times has it been said in every emulator forum ever? Console hardware is almost nothing like PC hardware and you can't compare clock speeds directly. Emulating a console processor takes a ton of CPU overhead on your PC, which is why things are so processor dependent.
You might have some knowledge of normal PC programming...but emulator coding is anything BUT normal.
KrazyTrumpeter05 ... Thanks for the explanation! Very useful! :-)
But ... Only "changing" ideas ... You have seen that at a good knowledge in the subject and participates in various forums ... I agree that depending on the settings affect all .... But ... I discart machines very weak because the current generation, for those who love the game, all settings have reasonable ... Do not you think?
So I got the idea down it seems that programming is "Discounted" very involved in ... I know it is hard emulate! I know that spends much of the hardware resource to achieve a good result ...
In the last generation of emulator of Nintendo64 ... Everything works perfect on a Pentium 3 533 with 333MHz memory on a videocard GeForce2 ... But this only after "optimize" the code of the emulator.
So ... No idea what hardware is in the gamecube / wii. I can not evaluate ... But ... I have the impression that consumption of the emulator is high! At least the processor. Only this!
(07-28-2009, 02:34 AM)guiferreira Wrote: [ -> ]KrazyTrumpeter05 ... Thanks for the explanation! Very useful! :-)
But ... Only "changing" ideas ... You have seen that at a good knowledge in the subject and participates in various forums ... I agree that depending on the settings affect all .... But ... I discart machines very weak because the current generation, for those who love the game, all settings have reasonable ... Do not you think?
So I got the idea down it seems that programming is "Discounted" very involved in ... I know it is hard emulate! I know that spends much of the hardware resource to achieve a good result ...
In the last generation of emulator of Nintendo64 ... Everything works perfect on a Pentium 3 533 with 333MHz memory on a videocard GeForce2 ... But this only after "optimize" the code of the emulator.
So ... No idea what hardware is in the gamecube / wii. I can not evaluate ... But ... I have the impression that consumption of the emulator is high! At least the processor. Only this!
Optimization and emulation perfection is what the devs are doing right now. If we are to get full speeds and perfect emulation on all games then yes, optimization will be necessary (or not if we wait until MUCH better hardware comes along
). The devs will continue to work on the emulator (which means improve emulation AND optimize).
(07-28-2009, 02:34 AM)guiferreira Wrote: [ -> ]In the last generation of emulator of Nintendo64 ... Everything works perfect on a Pentium 3 533 with 333MHz memory on a videocard GeForce2 ... But this only after "optimize" the code of the emulator.
So ... No idea what hardware is in the gamecube / wii. I can not evaluate ... But ... I have the impression that consumption of the emulator is high! At least the processor. Only this!
hey, good comparison :
n64 hardware : 93mhz mips/risc
running on 533mhz x86
multiplier : 5.7
now lets say both risc and x86 improved about the same in terms of speed/clock over the years.
wii : 730mhz risc
running todays 4ghz machines
multiplier : 5.4
so in comparison, even today only via overclock reachable hardware is slower then your 533mhz pentium II years ago for emulation of a comparable console.
the multiplier keeps about the same : you need 5-6 times better hardware to play most stuff properly.
in any case, wii is the newest console(apart mobile ones) that will be emulated in the next maybe 10 years.
think of emulating an xbox360 for example : 3,2ghz * 5-6 -> results in 16-19ghz
Unlikely we see this in next 10 years. and no, more cores do not help.
conclusion : we can be happy with the performance we got with dolphin. its very fast compared to other emus.
(07-28-2009, 04:29 AM)Iulius Wrote: [ -> ] (07-28-2009, 02:34 AM)guiferreira Wrote: [ -> ]In the last generation of emulator of Nintendo64 ... Everything works perfect on a Pentium 3 533 with 333MHz memory on a videocard GeForce2 ... But this only after "optimize" the code of the emulator.
So ... No idea what hardware is in the gamecube / wii. I can not evaluate ... But ... I have the impression that consumption of the emulator is high! At least the processor. Only this!
hey, good comparison :
n64 hardware : 93mhz mips/risc
running on 533mhz x86
multiplier : 5.7
now lets say both risc and x86 improved about the same in terms of speed/clock over the years.
wii : 730mhz risc
running todays 4ghz machines
multiplier : 5.4
so in comparison, even today only via overclock reachable hardware is slower then your 533mhz pentium II years ago for emulation of a comparable console.
the multiplier keeps about the same : you need 5-6 times better hardware to play most stuff properly.
in any case, wii is the newest console(apart mobile ones) that will be emulated in the next maybe 10 years.
think of emulating an xbox360 for example : 3,2ghz * 5-6 -> results in 16-19ghz
Unlikely we see this in next 10 years. and no, more cores do not help.
conclusion : we can be happy with the performance we got with dolphin. its very fast compared to other emus.
Good comparison Iulius also my friend! Very enlightening ... But ... Unless I am mistaken ... Has a "small error" in your comparison ...
93mhz/533mhz = 5.73 is correct!
730mhz/4000mhz = 5.4 is correct!
But ... In my case I have 2 processors 3.0 GHz! Would not be completely 6000mhz ... But something close to it! So ... Indeed we have:
730mhz/6000mhz = 8.2
It is enough that multiplier factor or not? However with 8x more processing, we have menus framerate of 30 frames per second!
Correct me if I'm wrong but its calculation, although correct, is far from reality.
Estate architectures are sure different, but I think it is inpossible that a processor RISK is 5x more efficient than an x86.
You can say that a RISC processor is on average 5x more efficient than an x86?
Gamecube and wii use "power pc" which is the IBM RISC ...
Believe are very good compared processors' clock-to-clock "and maybe 2 or 3x faster depending on the application, but 5x .. I think doubtful ...
Apple replaced the "powermac" that are RISC by "intel" that are x86! Why?
conclusion : we can be happy with the performance we got with dolphin. its very fast compared to other emus... But ... It will be better in the future!
Ah! I had forgotten! For who is seem this little discussion and not understood... But want understand ...
Some links will help you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertz
http://www.unitconversion.org/frequency-wavelength/gigahertz-to-megahertz-conversion.html
http://www.osnews.com/story/3997/Analysis_x86_Vs_PPC
Quote:But ... In my case I have 2 processors 3.0 GHz! Would not be completely 6000mhz ... But something close to it! So ... Indeed we have:
730mhz/6000mhz = 8.2
wrong : emulating 1 ppc-core cannot be done in parallel with todays x86 hardware.
your second core is worthless for ppc emulation, it only does gpu stuff in dolphin.
i allready often explained it this way, but i think it fits the best : 2 women dont get 1 baby in 4-5 month. impossible.
Quote:You can say that a RISC processor is on average 5x more efficient than an x86?
no !
i say you need maybe 5-6 the power to emulate one.
thats two different things.
the x86 operations dont do the same as the powerpc operations, so you need more of them to act like the 1 ppc operation.
simpel example :
ppc : add r1,r2,r3
that adds r2 and r3 and writes it in r1.
if you want to do that in x86, it looks like this :
// load r2
mov ebx,[mem_addr+x]
// load r3
mov ecx,[mem_addr+y]
// add r2,r3
add ebx,ecx
// writeback
mov eax,ebx
now thats 6 times more instructions. maybe not best to do this, but certainly not the worst.
now, if the program was x86 in the first place, it would be clear that you can use the regs(compiler/programmer made sure) and you only need the add line.
i hope this explain to you why much more performance is needed.
and we not even talked about creating this x86 code from ppc code while the game is running.
some of you people are clueless. No, you can not multiply clock speed by # of cores you have, and it's not just about clockspeed. As I said before, a 3ghz conroe will destroy a 8ghz netburst.
Yeah it's pointless trying to work this out by multiplying clock speeds. Clock for clock is not comparable. Plus it's all about optimisation - the more accurate the emulator, the faster it should run.