(06-08-2012, 04:05 PM)skid Wrote: [ -> ]Like neobrain said to Shonumi, this is all to do with timing. There is nothing that links Accurate VBeam with DSP LLE or idle skipping. DSP LLE also does not rely on the PPC's idle skipper. DSP LLE does have it's own idle skipping which is disabled when LLE on thread is enabled and enabled if LLE on thread is disabled. I don't think the DSP LLE idle skipper will affect the results you're seeing.
DSP LLE - accurately timed
DSP HLE - not timed, not accurate
Accurate VBeam on - accurately timed.
Accurate VBeam off - approximately timed.
Idle skipping off - accurately timed
Idle skipping on - should be accurately timed, but might be an approximation. Lessens CPU load on the PC.
DSP LLE on thread - does not affect timing. Lessens CPU load on the PC.
There is one other factor not mentioned in this thread. I remember mylek wrote some code to smartly join audio sections together so that it would be seamless (no stuttering). That may be playing a part in this. An early version of this is in mylek's Xenoblade HLE fix. The more correct version is in master. The audio back-end used might play a part in this also.
DSound back-end runs audio on it's own thread, while XAudio2 does not create an audio thread.
Since both idle skipping and vbeam affects timing,it seems to me maybe LLE is not supposed to skip sound when everything is accurately timed,even if game is not running fullspeed.
LLE on thread should also effect timing,you just said LLE has it own skipping which is disabled when its on.
I tried this with standard r7719 not the one with mylek's patch.
Mylek's patch have not been included in master that early,so I dont think it should have anything to do with this.
I only tested with Dsound so far. After reading your comment tried it with Xaudio and didn't see any difference !
(06-08-2012, 01:14 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]Does audio throttling affect this at all for you?
Setting framelimit to audio instead of auto didnt have any impact.
Using framelimit to reduce fps did cause sound stuttering.
(06-08-2012, 04:36 PM)Shonumi Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I already figured that out (should have mentioned it in my post), since I did some other testing in the same manner as my video on Metroid Prime. Thankfully, my old settings (no VBeam) offer better results. I did the same settings for each game and only changed VBeam. This behavior in ToS is quite unlike other LLE games with Accurate VBeam, in that it tanks the FPS.
Strange,vbeam doesnt tank the fps for me. Its always 60 everywhere except world map,where its always 30 fps,vbeam on or off.
Also,could you test skies of arcadia again ? This is only game I found this to not work on,however you said it does for you...
I'm afraid this is a trick that I stopped using about 6 months ago because it caused too many issues. First of all I noticed random crashing when LLE on thread was used. Another problem was that it broke gameplay elements that relied on audio timing. In Mario Galaxy 2 for example, in the Beatbox Galaxy the platforms don't flip over. Also in the Flashback Galaxy, there are no flashes of light....you have to play the whole level in complete darkness. There were issues in other games that I can't quite remember off the top of my head. I suppose there may be some games where it doesn't cause any problems which would be great.
(06-08-2012, 08:37 PM)bret emerald Wrote: [ -> ]I'm afraid this is a trick that I stopped using about 6 months ago because it caused too many issues. First of all I noticed random crashing when LLE on thread was used. Another problem was that it broke gameplay elements that relied on audio timing. In Mario Galaxy 2 for example, in the Beatbox Galaxy the platforms don't flip over. Also in the Flashback Galaxy, there are no flashes of light....you have to play the whole level in complete darkness. There were issues in other games that I can't quite remember off the top of my head. I suppose there may be some games where it doesn't cause any problems which would be great.
What exactly are you talking about ? Which settings caused issues ?
LLE on thread ?
(06-08-2012, 08:39 PM)rpglord Wrote: [ -> ] (06-08-2012, 08:37 PM)bret emerald Wrote: [ -> ]I'm afraid this is a trick that I stopped using about 6 months ago because it caused too many issues. First of all I noticed random crashing when LLE on thread was used. Another problem was that it broke gameplay elements that relied on audio timing. In Mario Galaxy 2 for example, in the Beatbox Galaxy the platforms don't flip over. Also in the Flashback Galaxy, there are no flashes of light....you have to play the whole level in complete darkness. There were issues in other games that I can't quite remember off the top of my head. I suppose there may be some games where it doesn't cause any problems which would be great.
What exactly are you talking about ? Which settings caused issues ?
LLE on thread ?
The settings recommended in the original post. Accurate Vbeam emulation enabled and idle skipping disabled. With vbeam enabled and lle on thread enabled together I was getting crashes...sometimes after 5 mins sometimes an hour or more but it always crashed. The broken levels in Mario Galaxy 2 are caused by vbeam enabled, regardless of whether lle on thread is used or not.
(06-08-2012, 11:18 PM)bret emerald Wrote: [ -> ]The settings recommended in the original post. Accurate Vbeam emulation enabled and idle skipping disabled. With vbeam enabled and lle on thread enabled together I was getting crashes...sometimes after 5 mins sometimes an hour or more but it always crashed. The broken levels in Mario Galaxy 2 are caused by vbeam enabled, regardless of whether lle on thread is used or not.
It certanly is posible that vbeam causes these glitches - I didnt get that far in SMG2.
I didnt get any crashes though in couple of hours in SMG2 with these options.
It would be great if these can give some insight to devs to make LLE not to stutter even when these options are not set up like this.
Vbeam can cause problems in some games,I remember it causing problems in Last Story
Are the VBeam problems in The Last Story random in nature? And you were using DSP LLE at the time too?
bret, do you have a save game near the points where it breaks (Beatbox Galaxy and Flashback Galaxy)? I'd like to see why VBeam breaks there.
(06-09-2012, 12:34 AM)skid Wrote: [ -> ]Are the VBeam problems in The Last Story random in nature? And you were using DSP LLE at the time too?
bret, do you have a save game near the points where it breaks (Beatbox Galaxy and Flashback Galaxy)? I'd like to see why VBeam breaks there.
I just checked to make sure,and problems with vbeam and last story are only present when HLE is used ( complete garbled sound in cinematics )
Everything is fine with LLE
( expect awful speed game is running in latest revisions.. )
rpglord Wrote:Strange,vbeam doesnt tank the fps for me. Its always 60 everywhere except world map,where its always 30 fps,vbeam on or off.
Also,could you test skies of arcadia again ? This is only game I found this to not work on,however you said it does for you...
For ToS, have you tried fighting a battle where there's lots of actions happening onscreen? For example, the FPS tanks in my tests when I fight with a full party against a lot of enemies (usually 3+), and Collete does Angel Feathers while I'm attacking. On my normal settings, that's where I drop down to about 55 FPS, but with VBeam, it goes down to 30 at the most, other times around 45. Towns and fields show no difference though, it's 60/30 for both. Guess I should have clarified when/where the drops happened.
Just tried SoA for a bit. Haven't played a whole lot of the game (busy beating other RPGs atm) but the very start of the game is pretty intense, and a perfect candidate for testing. Without VBeam, it stutters and game speed drops to anywhere from 60~78%. With VBeam on, it's fullspeed, no stuttering. Same thing for battles, cutscenes, etc. I have work in a bit, so I'll test it further by deliberately slowing things down with increased IR + AA and see if it still stutters, I'll post that stuff later.
(06-09-2012, 03:26 AM)Shonumi Wrote: [ -> ]For ToS, have you tried fighting a battle where there's lots of actions happening onscreen? For example, the FPS tanks in my tests when I fight with a full party against a lot of enemies (usually 3+), and Collete does Angel Feathers while I'm attacking. On my normal settings, that's where I drop down to about 55 FPS, but with VBeam, it goes down to 30 at the most, other times around 45. Towns and fields show no difference though, it's 60/30 for both. Guess I should have clarified when/where the drops happened.
Can't really test this,didn't get this far in the game.
But it doesn't really metter,since this game is best left alone in defualts settings,with lle of course
I can't imagine it having any problems on default settings,constant 100% gamespeed for first couple of hours I played it.
Enabling vbeam,on the other hand,I just noticed do decrease fps in animations.
(06-09-2012, 03:26 AM)Shonumi Wrote: [ -> ]Just tried SoA for a bit. Haven't played a whole lot of the game (busy beating other RPGs atm) but the very start of the game is pretty intense, and a perfect candidate for testing. Without VBeam, it stutters and game speed drops to anywhere from 60~78%. With VBeam on, it's fullspeed, no stuttering. Same thing for battles, cutscenes, etc. I have work in a bit, so I'll test it further by deliberately slowing things down with increased IR + AA and see if it still stutters, I'll post that stuff later.
Yeah increased IR+AA is best way to test if LLE will stutter or not.
I got SMG2 down to 20 fps no stutter.
SoA was running at 12 fps in intro movie at same settings ( its more demanding then SMG 2 lol ) and sound did stutter
(06-09-2012, 03:26 AM)Shonumi Wrote: [ -> ]rpglord Wrote:Strange,vbeam doesnt tank the fps for me. Its always 60 everywhere except world map,where its always 30 fps,vbeam on or off.
Also,could you test skies of arcadia again ? This is only game I found this to not work on,however you said it does for you...
For ToS, have you tried fighting a battle where there's lots of actions happening onscreen? For example, the FPS tanks in my tests when I fight with a full party against a lot of enemies (usually 3+), and Collete does Angel Feathers while I'm attacking. On my normal settings, that's where I drop down to about 55 FPS, but with VBeam, it goes down to 30 at the most, other times around 45. Towns and fields show no difference though, it's 60/30 for both. Guess I should have clarified when/where the drops happened.
Just tried SoA for a bit. Haven't played a whole lot of the game (busy beating other RPGs atm) but the very start of the game is pretty intense, and a perfect candidate for testing. Without VBeam, it stutters and game speed drops to anywhere from 60~78%. With VBeam on, it's fullspeed, no stuttering. Same thing for battles, cutscenes, etc. I have work in a bit, so I'll test it further by deliberately slowing things down with increased IR + AA and see if it still stutters, I'll post that stuff later.
The opening animations were enough to show me that vbeam reduced ToS's speed.