Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

Hmm interesting that this got made into its own thread, some good points all around, mainly by SS. I'm not claiming that laptops are strictly better than desktops (yet), but rather defending the merits of Top Tier Elite Gaming Laptops, which are in another class entirely from netbooks/ultrabooks/macbooks and other cute contraptions like tablets/ipads etc. Sadly there are a fair amount of self-proclaimed "knowledgeable" emulation enthusiasts that upon seeing the world laptop or gaming laptop immediately fire off ignorant assertions that its not a viable solution or up to par. That type of backwards cave-man logic may have been the case in the previous decade, however things have changed rapidly, to the point where their claims are no longer based on truths, but rather outdated myths.

It is clear from Intel that their focus is on leveling the playing field between desktop and laptop processors, and with the recent release of Ivy Bridge the gap has shriveled to nearly non existent amongst both locked Cpu's and unlocked Cpu's. This fact means that any Pcsx2 or dolphin game that can be played seamlessly at full speed with a desktop, can be done with a laptop as well. The only thing that desktops had in their favor was decidedly stronger Gpu's (not really relevant for emulation, since it only affects how high the Internal Resolution/Msaa is) which makes a difference in regards to PC gaming. Until now.

The reason that I and millions of others across the world are ecstatic and celebrating, is due to the eagerly anticipated near-parity between Mobile Gpu's and Desktop Gpu's, which has finally been realized. With the introduction of the sub 100 Tdp Mobile King 7970m, we finally have a practically full powered 7870 in a mobile package, and at an amazing retail price of $450, which is nearly on par with its brother the 7870, and not much more expensive then the Gtx 570/580. Understandably its still slightly more expensive, but thats to be expected since ofcourse anything mobile is intrinsically superior to something unmovable, and Elite Mobile Chips are taken from the highest quality version of their respective chip, which adds a slight premium (note the Untouchable 3920xm and forthcoming highest clocked (3.1Ghz/4Ghz turbo) 3960xm which demand a hefty premium over the crony i7-2600k and the decent 3770k, due to being strictly better). The result in this case is a mobile Gpu that finally massacres the 560ti, cruises by the 570, and even challenges the 580. With a slight overclock made by the new 28nm chip it passes the monstrous Nvidia Flagship, with a respectable amount of overclockability remaining in reserve. As a result every single released PC game to date can be played smoothly at Max settings at a laptops native 1080p resolution, including metro 2033, crysis/crysis2, and even The Witcher 2. For the hordes of Gamers that connect/wirelessly stream their True Elite Gaming Laptops to higher definition displays, the 7970m's 153.6 GB bandwith (nearly on par with the Phantasmal Gtx 680 mind you) won't let them down.

No doubt desktop Gpu's still have a slight lead (eventually the Gtx 680 will actually be in stock, and have more than a paper launch, but until then the 7970m makes a mockery of Nvidia's Desktop fermi Gpu "flagships"), but anyone with a grain of intelligence can clearly see that the gap is diminishing at an alarming rate. No longer will the days of Gaming Laptops owners being treated as second hand citizens be tolerated. I hope that the dolphin forums will eventually come to the same sensible conclusion that the Pcsx2 forums has unanimously come to in regards to the viability of Laptops for emulation. Alas the day seems to be far off, but luckily there are a few Enlightened Beacons of Reason like Starscream and Shonumi around, and perhaps the day will come when others see the light.

P.S This seems like a hardware topic, since we are largely discussing the hardware of desktops/laptops in regards to Emulation/Gaming. Don't think these type of discussions belong in off-topic, since after all the most important thing regarding emulation is the first question asked, Laptop vs Desktop?

(04-25-2012, 09:07 AM)SlickDragon Wrote: [ -> ]perhaps the day will come when others see the light.

This is getting a bit Religious, why don't you start a Laptop Church and spread the word.

Never the less, I prefer the Amiga 1200, with its Sleek Designs and its mechanical keys (far superior to Laptop keyboards )


You could mount a Screen on Top, and convert into a Amiga laptop.


Why cant they make PCs like this

(04-25-2012, 07:01 AM)LordVador Wrote: [ -> ]Desktop of course but I travel a lot for my job and in this case laptop + emulators are the good deal for me

Same for me I do love to travel though
Will move to US(Sanjose.CA) soon

Sigh....here we go. Why on earth did you move this SS? Especially after I asked you not to. Now that it's in delfino plaza the conversation is going to turn to shit fast enough to make all of our heads spin.

Quote:To me, a desktop PC is the old way of doing things. Technically, a desktop can do pretty much the same thing that a laptop can do, but in the end it's just a hulking pile of crap taking up way too much space in a world where things are made smaller, work better, are more efficient and are able to do the same exact thing in a small package that we used to do in a big package. The world today is about doing things quick, easy and on the go, there is no reason for a person to ever buy a desktop when a laptop can do everything a desktop can do and more and fits in with today's world so much better. It's okay if you want to still have an old desktop at the house, I still have an old Nintendo I like to look at and smile at, but I would never dream of turning it on.

So....let me get this straight. You wouldn't use a desktop just because they're bigger? And you think that size has something to do with age and technology?

The fact that you don't use your NES anymore has nothing to do with how big it is.

You're also missing the fact that desktops can do some things better than a laptop. You're crazy if you think you can be as productive on a laptop workstation as you can be on a multimonitor desktop workstation. Desktops are not inherently inferior to laptops, they are not "older technology". They are the same technology in a different form factor that is better for different types of tasks. They each have their place in the world.

Quote:In the end, it's just better technology replacing old (in a sense).

No it's the same technology in a different form factor.

Quote:A few examples: We used to walk around with gigantic hand-held video tape recorders (hand-held is a bit generous, it was more like two strong hands held them up) that were the size of professional movie studio cameras today (maybe you're too young to remember those monstrosities), they were great at the time, but now we're able to do pretty much the same thing in the palm of our hands, there is no reason to use something the size of guitar to take video footage anymore.

There is if you want quality. Those cameras haven't gone away in case you've noticed. Ultra-portable cameras might offer quality that is good enough for most common users, but not everyone. If you're really serious about taking high quality photographs/videos you still need a good camera that's not quite so portable. I don't know that much about this particular subject myself but my dad is something of a camera fanatic/amateur photographer and I can tell you most of his cameras bought in the last 6 years are still pretty big and produce image quality that you simply can't get from a typical camera.

Quote:Your desktop is also akin to you buying and old 25" tube TV, then buying a VHS recorder, then buying a DVD player, then buying a stereo receiver, cable box and antenna, stacking them all up next to each other and doing the exact same thing I'm doing with my Plasma.

.....what? That makes literally no sense. That is a terrible example.

Not to mention half that stuff is still just as big today as it was 30 years ago. And your plasma TV will still need half that stuff if you want to watch cable TV and use high power speakers.

Quote:You just don't need to do that anymore, things are so much easier now and require so much less space, you don't need to carry around a cell phone the size of an encyclopedia today. Some of these examples will probably go over your head in how they relate to the actual subject, but honestly, until people start going into computer shops and saying "hi, I'm looking for a computer, but it has to be something big and something I can't move", I do not see the desktop making it another ten years.

Jesus christ a computer does not have to be highly mobile. That should be obvious to everyone. Media centers don't have to be mobile, they sit in one place. Workstations don't have to be mobile for the same reason. And people rarely play anything but casual games outside of their home for obvious reasons. People still need good workstations, laptops don't provide that as well as desktop do. The same thing goes for gaming systems and media centers. None of these systems NEED mobility so it's usually a non-issue when you're shopping for them. If you travel a lot and you want a mobile workstation then buy a laptop, but that's only a certain group of people, not everyone.

Quote:Furthermore, I think you might have gotten the wrong idea from SlickDragon, while he did need an attitude adjustment (as you do many times) he was just defending his right to use a laptop (just as you are with a desktop) in a world where everyone is telling other people "laptops are no good for gaming" when we all know that with the right one, they are.

He wasn't correcting anyone he was just randomly ranting about how stupid all desktop users were and how we should just shut up and accept the truth that laptops are better. Not better in specific ways, just better.

I mainly use my home computer for two things: programming and gaming. A desktop is better for both of these things. Laptops can be quite good for both, just not quite as good. From my own personal experiences I do not think laptops are the "godly machines destined to become the future of the PC and rid us of the inferior desktop design" that both of your guys are making them out to be. Also I do a lot of computer repairs at work and for friends and desktops are so much easier to upgrade/repair/mod in my opinion that it has made me hate that fact that most of my friends have laptops because it has made my life a bit more difficult.

Quote:emulation enthusiasts that upon seeing the world laptop or gaming laptop immediately fire off ignorant assertions that its not a viable solution or up to par.

That happens a lot around here because we look at the specs of the system the user is trying to use, not because we immediately assume that their laptop is bad. And usually if it's a laptop the specs tend to be below par so we tell them to buy a good desktop because it's cheaper for doing what they want.

Quote:It is clear from Intel that their focus is on leveling the playing field between desktop and laptop processors,

Not entirely true. This is a common misconception. Ever since we ran into the heat/power walls microprocessor developers have had to mainly resort to improving energy efficiency and adding more cpus to each chip to increase throughput. This has led to single threaded throughput of laptops/desktops getting closer but multithreaded throughput is still as far apart as it ever was. Next generation ivy bridge laptops will be 2-4 cores while desktops will be split between low end (2-4 cores) and high end (4-8 cores ivy bridge-E) and servers will be mostly 8-16 cores per socket.

Quote:The reason that I and millions of others across the world are ecstatic and celebrating, is due to the eagerly anticipated near-parity between Mobile Gpu's and Desktop Gpu's, which has finally been realized. With the introduction of the sub 100 Tdp Mobile King 7970m, we finally have a practically full powered 7870 in a mobile package, and at an amazing retail price of $450, which is nearly on par with its brother the 7870, and not much more expensive then the Gtx 570/580.

The 7870 is an upper mid tier card, the 7950 and 7970 are high end cards available for the same price. The 7970m also requires absurd amounts of power and cooling for a laptop gpu. We've been in the same situation for about 5-6 years now at least, so I don't exactly see this as being a breakthrough. Top of the line laptop gpus have always been one tier below top of the line desktop gpus while costing the same as top tier desktop gpus.

Not to mention that while the 7000m and 600m series have already been mostly released we are still waiting on most of the 7000 and 600 series as well as the price drops that inevitable come when a new series of gpus begins to replace an older series.

Quote:The result in this case is a mobile Gpu that finally massacres the 560ti, cruises by the 570, and even challenges the 580. With a slight overclock made by the new 28nm chip it passes the monstrous Nvidia Flagship, with a respectable amount of overclockability remaining in reserve. As a result every single released PC game to date can be played smoothly at Max settings at a laptops native 1080p resolution, including metro 2033, crysis/crysis2, and even The Witcher 2. For the hordes of Gamers that connect/wirelessly stream their True Elite Gaming Laptops to higher definition displays, the 7970m's 153.6 GB bandwith (nearly on par with the Phantasmal Gtx 680 mind you) won't let them down.

You're comparing a current gen. top of the line laptop gpu against an upper mid tier last gen. desktop gpu. That's not exactly fair.

Quote:I hope that the dolphin forums will eventually come to the same sensible conclusion that the Pcsx2 forums has unanimously come to in regards to the viability of Laptops for emulation. Alas the day seems to be far off, but luckily there are a few Enlightened Beacons of Reason like Starscream and Shonumi around, and perhaps the day will come when others see the light.

We're not quite there yet. At the moment most laptops are not good enough for most games. You need an absolute top of the line laptop for that while a mid tier desktop will do the job just fine. This is why most of dolphins desktop users are getting much better performance than most of the laptop users unless you're using parts that are several years out of date.

I don't deny that good high end gaming laptops exist. I deny that they are inheritly better than gaming desktops just because of their mobility. Some problems that are common with gaming laptops that you have to watch out for when planning to buy one:
-higher price than an equivalent gaming desktop
-high power consumption leads to poor battery life while gaming
-much bigger and heavier than an average laptop
-requires much more cooling, can sometimes be quite loud while under stress
-upgrading/repairing/modding is far more difficult'
-etc.

As such I prefer to do my gaming and programming on my desktop while using a much lower end laptop for casual stuff like browsing the web on the go.

(04-25-2012, 10:04 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]This is why most of dolphins desktop users are getting much better performance than most of the laptop users unless you're using parts that are several years out of date.

I think MOST of the people are in a boat like myself. Bought a lappy without the knowledge of how dolphin emulation works. Had i know it ran off two cores (and only two cores) i could of shopped around a little more, maybe even payed less, and gotten a laptop that could of emulated better than my machine did.

Lappys are going the way of more cores not faster cores, and as such more games (i think) will start to utilize that to their advantage. The dolphin programing does not do this.


Again, hands down.... IF someone gave me $1000 a said build me something that will play games or anything for that matter at the highest graphics settings and will be out of date the slowest. I would build a desktop. And you would be able to upgrade in about a two years and get another year MAYBE a year and a half out of it. So total for 3.5 years of gaming would be about.......... 1300$ or you could buy a lappy that could do the same thing that would last for about a year year and a half. then have to buy another lasting from 2-3 years for about 2600$ (1300 each lappy)

NaturalViolence: There is so much wrong with your comments that I do not have the time or energy to respond at the moment, I'll have more time tomorrow to straighten you out. Don't go and edit out all your comments until then.

I have to take a neutral side on this matter, i think all have their advantages and disadvantages but in the long-run a desktop will always edge out a laptop...barely.

Average users will rather buy a desktop instead of a laptop that will perform almost as equally as the desktop but cost twice or thrice as more. Users who travel alot (including myself) as said above will want a laptop, and so many other reasons, so i think it all depends on the person and what he intends to do with the machine so atm i dont think a winner can be picked in this conversation. Performance & Portability is the main question one has to ask himself but there are now laptops that can deliver the best of both worlds.

If i could i would build a desktop at home and also buy a laptop for use in my travels but i'd probably build the desktop first.

The decision mostly boils down to:
1. Is it "good enough" for my needs?
2. Do I need mobility for what I'm using it for?
3. How much does it cost?

(04-25-2012, 05:09 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]2. Do I need mobility for what I'm using it for?

Do you have the time to play Games while out of the house?
There are only a few scenarios for this reason...
- for weeks in a hotel (due to work)
- timejob in another country...
- girlfriend rampage

(04-25-2012, 05:09 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]Do I need mobility for what I'm using it for?

This is the first and real advantage of laptop according to me

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(04-25-2012, 06:17 PM)dannzen Wrote: [ -> ]Do you have the time to play Games while out of the house?
There are only a few scenarios for this reason...
- for weeks in a hotel (due to work)
- timejob in another country...
- girlfriend rampage

All of these but mainly the two first ones