Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

(05-12-2012, 01:42 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]And one day you will understand that smaller isn't always better.

One day you'll understand that I'm not just talking about smaller, but smaller and able to do the exact same things.

(05-12-2012, 01:42 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like I'm stuck in a loop here repeating myself.

You are. Until you open your mind and stop thinking in the past, you have no choice but to keep repeating your same old closed minded argument.

Quote:but smaller and able to do the exactly the same things.

"Able to do the same things" is not the same as "able to do the same things as efficiently". Like I said earlier, you can write an essay on a smartphone, just not as easily/fast as you can on a laptop.

Quote:but to keep repeating your same old closed minded argument.

And you keep ignoring them. These statements about how crude and old desktops are are completely meaningless until you start addressing my arguments. Take my last post for example:

Why would I want a laptop server?
1. A server never needs to be moved and needs to be powerful. Why blow huge amounts of money on portability that I don't need?
2. And if I want to build a high end server why constrain myself to lower end cpus? I can't exactly put an 8 core sandy bridge-EP cpu in a laptop.
3. Why constrain myself to less memory and memory without ECC when both of those things are so important for high end servers?
4. Why constrain myself to using smaller 2.5" HDD with lower storage capacities and no ability to have many HDD?
5. When desktops are easy to upgrade?
6. When desktops are easy to fix (oops my laptop mobo broke, guess I'll have to buy a new one)?
Considering I've now had two friends whose laptops mobo broke this one really hits home for me.

Why would I want a laptop HTPC?
1. An htpc never needs to be moved. Why blow huge amounts of money on portability that I don't need? I'll just plug it into my receiver and never touch it again except to turn it on.
2. Why restrict the choices of hardware available to me? What if I want a high end audio card for my hi-fi stereo setup?
3. When laptops use smaller 2.5" HDD with lower storage capacities?
4. When desktops are easy to upgrade?
5. When desktops are easy to fix (oops my laptop mobo broke, guess I'll have to buy a new one)?

Why would I want a laptop workstation?
1. When multi-monitor setup with several large high resolution monitors are far faster and far more efficient for most types of work?
2. When desktops have a wide selection of high, med, and low end quadro fx cards and laptops don't?
3. When laptops use smaller 2.5" HDD with lower storage capacities?
4. When desktops have so much more usb ports?
5. When I'll just end up buying an external monitor, external speakers, external mouse, and external ergonomic keyboard and end up using it like a desktop anyways?
6. When high end desktops are so much cheaper?
7. When desktops are easy to upgrade?
8. When desktops are easy to fix (oops my laptop mobo broke, guess I'll have to buy a new one)?


Why would I want a high end gaming laptop?
1. When gaming desktops are so much cheaper?
2. When gaming desktops have access to large high resolution monitors and multi-monitor setups?
3. When gaming desktops are easy to upgrade and mod?
4. When gaming desktops are easy to fix (oops my laptop mobo broke, guess I'll have to buy a new one)?
5. When a don't game in public and can't stand trying to play games on anything but a desk with a good KB + mouse? Why do I need mobility when I never want to play games anywhere else?
6. When gaming desktops give me access to 1.3 kw+ power supplies and multiple high end gpus in parallel?
7. When gaming desktops give me access to a wide variety of high end audio cards and other expansion cards?
8. When laptops use smaller 2.5" HDD with lower storage capacities?
9. When desktops have so much more usb ports?
10. When I'll just end up buying an external monitor, external speakers, external mouse, and external ergonomic keyboard and end up using it like a desktop anyways?

Sorry for the copy/paste. It made it faster to reuse points that are applicable to several types of systems.

It is stupid to spend significantly more money on a computer with less useful features, more restrictions, and mobility when you don't need the mobility. If you need a mobile system get a laptop, if you need any of the above get a desktop instead. Laptops should mainly be used for browsing the web, basic work, and travel work. If you do feel fine with gaming in public or several areas of the house and you want the mobility then by all means buy a gaming laptop. Or if you travel a lot. But for myself, I see no reason for me to spend a lot more money to get a system with several inferior traits and then end up never moving the thing.

(05-12-2012, 01:42 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]Likewise typing an essay on your smartphone would be pretty stupid, you can still do it, but it's not as practical as it would be on a larger system.

Ah, that happened to me once, out of necessity. I sprained my right wrist just before finals during my senior year at NIU. I could still write with my left, but typing was out of the question, just too painful on any keyboard. I had to get a 5+ page essay done for my Philosophy of Science class, and I couldn't wait for my wrist to heal. I ended up typing the whole thing on my iPod Touch :p I had like a week to do it, but it wasn't too bad.

(05-12-2012, 01:16 PM)Starscream Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-12-2012, 01:14 PM)ShadowFlash Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly - laptops are meant to be portable, desktops - more powerful and expandable.

Still thinking inside the box are we? Do you really think an upgradable and more powerful laptop is not just around the corner? You'd be silly to say that it's not. If the past 10 years has shown us anything, it's that portability is king. No one is interested in dragging an anchor around. You'll find out soon enough, there is just no need for giant contraptions when you can do the exact same thing in a much smaller package. It's like an old man who doesn't want to accept that the horse is out and that cars are in, it's quite silly actually.

Still ignoring other arguments, are we?

No, I don't think an easily upgradable laptop is going to exist. Proprietary cooling solutions make sure of that, plus the emphasis on size. As it currently stands, yes you can upgrade the GPU, CPU, RAM or HDD of a laptop -- but everything is so ridiculously tight in tolerances that it's not worth the hassle. Not to mention having to design your own cooling system if the new GPU isn't the exact same layout.

Your analogy is broken anyways: Cars are smaller, faster, more powerful, can carry more, and can run longer without stopping. Laptops cannot store more, have limited run time, and are not more powerful. Even the highest end system you have linked will be outperformed by a cheaper desktop, let alone a high-end server.

A more proper analogy is fans. You can have a wired box fan, or a hand fan. The box fan is big, stationary, but cools better. The hand fan can be taken with you, but won't perform as well as the box fan. Neither one is obsolete, they are used for different situations.


If you're so big on "smaller and able to do the same things" get an Intel phone.... it can run everything a laptop can in a much smaller form factor. You can still hook it up to monitors/keyboards/mice too.

(05-12-2012, 02:33 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]"Able to do the same things" is not the same as "able to do the same things as efficiently". Like I said earlier, you can write an essay on a smartphone, just not as easily/fast as you can on a laptop.

Please don't compare a phone to a computer, it's ridiculous.

(05-12-2012, 02:33 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]And you keep ignoring them. These statements about how crude and old desktops are are completely meaningless until you start addressing my arguments. Take my last post for example:

Why would I want a laptop server?
1. A server never needs to be moved and needs to be powerful. Why blow huge amounts of money on portability that I don't need?
2. And if I want to build a high end server why constrain myself to lower end cpus? I can't exactly put an 8 core sandy bridge-EP cpu in a laptop.
3. Why constrain myself to less memory and memory without ECC when both of those things are so important for high end servers?
4. Why constrain myself to using smaller 2.5" HDD with lower storage capacities and no ability to have many HDD?
5. When desktops are easy to upgrade?
6. When desktops are easy to fix (oops my laptop mobo broke, guess I'll have to buy a new one)?
Considering I've now had two friends whose laptops mobo broke this one really hits home for me.

Why would I want a laptop HTPC?
1. An htpc never needs to be moved. Why blow huge amounts of money on portability that I don't need? I'll just plug it into my receiver and never touch it again except to turn it on.
2. Why restrict the choices of hardware available to me? What if I want a high end audio card for my hi-fi stereo setup?
3. When laptops use smaller 2.5" HDD with lower storage capacities?
4. When desktops are easy to upgrade?
5. When desktops are easy to fix (oops my laptop mobo broke, guess I'll have to buy a new one)?

Why would I want a laptop workstation?
1. When multi-monitor setup with several large high resolution monitors are far faster and far more efficient for most types of work?
2. When desktops have a wide selection of high, med, and low end quadro fxcards and laptops don't?
3. When laptops use smaller 2.5" HDD with lower storage capacities?
4. When desktops have so much more usb ports?
5. When I'll just end up buying an external monitor, external speakers, external mouse, and external ergonomic keyboard and end up using it like a desktop anyways?
6. When high end desktops are so much cheaper?
7. When desktops are easy to upgrade?
8. When desktops are easy to fix (oops my laptop mobo broke, guess I'll have to buy a new one)?


Why would I want a high end gaming laptop?
1. When gaming desktops are so much cheaper?
2. When gaming desktops have access to large high resolution monitors and multi-monitor setups?
3. When gaming desktops are easy to upgrade and mod?
4. When gaming desktops are easy to fix (oops my laptop mobo broke, guess I'll have to buy a new one)?
5. When a don't game in public and can't stand trying to play games on anything but a desk with a good KB + mouse? Why do I need mobility when I never want to play games anywhere else?
6. When gaming desktops give me access to 1.3 kw+ power supplies and multiple high end gpus in parallel?
7. When gaming desktops give me access to a wide variety of high end audio cards and other expansion cards?
8. When laptops use smaller 2.5" HDD with lower storage capacities?
9. When desktops have so much more usb ports?
10. When I'll just end up buying an external monitor, external speakers, external mouse, and external ergonomic keyboard and end up using it like a desktop anyways?

You wouldn't want a laptop for a server or HTPC (but you could use one, which is the point. It's possible). Even so, you still wouldn't use your gaming desktop as a server or HTPC. You're going to need more machines. We're talking about normal everyday uses here. Gaming, web, music and movies. That was the original argument, that a high-end laptop can directly replace a desktop under those circumstances. And it can.

(05-12-2012, 02:33 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: [ -> ]It is stupid to spend significantly more money on a computer with less useful features, more restrictions, and mobility when you don't need the mobility. If you need a mobile system get a laptop, if you need any of the above get a desktop instead. Laptops should mainly be used for browsing the web, basic work, and travel work. If you do feel fine with gaming in public or several areas of the house and you want the mobility then by all means buy a gaming laptop. Or if you travel a lot. But for myself, I see no reason for me to spend a lot more money to get a system with several inferior traits and then end up never moving the thing.

That's your opinion. For me and the things I need to do with a PC, a laptop is a portable and direct replacement for a desktop. I like to be on my PC and do whatever it is I'm doing, then have the possibility to grab the computer and go quickly. If I need to relocate to another room, use the PC in the car, in an office or a friends house, I can. I'll gladly pay the extra to not have my "home base" (PC) not anchored down.

(05-12-2012, 05:49 PM)zurginator Wrote: [ -> ]No, I don't think an easily upgradable laptop is going to exist.

Sorry to see you don't think so. Upgrading and making improvements is inevitable.

(05-12-2012, 05:49 PM)zurginator Wrote: [ -> ]Your analogy is broken anyways: Cars are smaller, faster, more powerful, can carry more, and can run longer without stopping. Laptops cannot store more, have limited run time, and are not more powerful. Even the highest end system you have linked will be outperformed by a cheaper desktop, let alone a high-end server.

It's broken if you interpret it like that. If you interpret it how it was meant to be, it's not.

"Old man (no one is an old man here, just their way of thinking is similar), closed minded, living in the past and one who is afraid of change. One who says that new ideas and new things aren't possible because of the way he's always done them in the past. One who is not able to see new possibilities, or doesn't want to see them. One who clings to old ideas because it's all he knows."

(05-12-2012, 05:49 PM)zurginator Wrote: [ -> ]If you're so big on "smaller and able to do the same things" get an Intel phone.... it can run everything a laptop can in a much smaller form factor. You can still hook it up to monitors/keyboards/mice too.

Read my first response please.

That will be my last word, nothing left to say here that wasn't already. In the end, there will be no winner of the argument or right or wrong answer. All of this comes down to opinion, personal preference and your needs. There is one fact though, the future will always bring new things, and the old way of doing things will eventually not be done anymore.

I'm tired of arguing against your own contradicting opinions, so OK.

And that's exactly what it is: your opinion. Stop arguing it as a fact. Me and Natural have both said that for certain people laptops are fine, just not for us. For me and the things I need to do with a PC, a laptop is not a portable nor a direct replacement for a desktop. Even comparing your highest end link, it comes no where near the power nor flexibility I need.

Put simply:

Quote:If the past 10 years has shown us anything, it's that portability is king. No one is interested in dragging an anchor around. You'll find out soon enough, there is just no need for giant contraptions when you can do the exact same thing in a much smaller package. It's like an old man who doesn't want to accept that the horse is out and that cars are in, it's quite silly actually.

Key word: NO ONE. This is not true, as you said yourself:

Quote:You wouldn't want a laptop for a server or HTPC

And for the record, yes I do use my "Gaming Computer" (which is really a bull **** term) for a server... I even use a server motherboard.

It would also be nice for you to stop referring to us as stuck in our ways, as you obviously are stuck yourself. I own both, I made a decision. You own neither, yet you already made up your mind which is better. I build tech for a living, I know what trends are happening. Laptops are going to disappear, replaced by tablets and phones. Desktops will remain, as their main function is power over portability. Contrary to your belief, Laptops are becoming smaller and less powerful compared to their relative desktop brethren. Hell, they don't even make the 21" mobile workstations anymore (which were actually pretty close to their desktop counterparts 5 years or so ago).

This is all you need to know.

Quote:We're talking about normal everyday uses here. Gaming, web, music and movies. That was the original argument, that a high-end laptop can directly replace a desktop under those circumstances. And it can.

When you feel like posting again, read that. If you think you have some other really important point to make, read that. Read it as many times as you have to until you're able to comprehend its meaning.

Okay, now I'm really done here. :p

(05-13-2012, 04:24 AM)Starscream Wrote: [ -> ]This is all you need to know.

Quote:We're talking about normal everyday uses here. Gaming, web, music and movies. That was the original argument, that a high-end laptop can directly replace a desktop under those circumstances. And it can.

When you feel like posting again, read that. If you think you have some other really important point to make, read that. Read it as many times as you have to until you're able to comprehend its meaning.

Okay, now I'm really done here. :p

Like I said, you and your conflicting posts:

Quote:No one is interested in dragging an anchor around. You'll find out soon enough, there is just no need for giant contraptions when you can do the exact same thing in a much smaller package. It's like an old man who doesn't want to accept that the horse is out and that cars are in, it's quite silly actually.

For web/music/movies, yes a more expensive laptop can match a desktop. For gaming, it's still a no. Even the absolute top tier of gaming systems with 4x 680 SLI (1200watts) chug at some settings at surround/eyefinity. And trust me, once you go surround, you can't go back.

Can you game? Yes. Can you game at "the exact same thing"? No. Just wait until we start seeing some decent tessellation and high-res textures (Metro 2033 is a good example of what will happen (Takes 2-3 7970s heavily OC'd to get a decent framerate at 5760x1080)).

Thought I'd post here that now that I have my desktop I never use my laptop XD

Quote:For web/music/movies, yes a more expensive laptop can match a desktop.

About 3 months ago i finally finished converting a LOT of vinyl records (~3500 discs) to FLAC. Which were collected by a lot of people, me, my parents, my friend, and a huge part came from a closed music store.
Most of them are either rare and unavailable on CDs. It took 5 months and 30 magnetic cartridges. The whole archive is about 2.4Tb, about 1/6 of my PCs disk space (30Tb NAS not included). It's simply impossible to fit it on laptop without external hard drives which will make a crippled desktop out of laptop.
And no need to tell me about those industrial/military/whatever rugged "laptops" that use 2.5" server SAS drives, yeah it's not uncommon to have a space for 2 drives in these. But... $130k for a heavy machine which have features barely needed for home/office use is a bit too much, i can't even imagine a home desktop configuration for that price, not a desktop-sized supercomputer, because workstation with top professional video card and a reference display costs about a half of that or even less.

Also well, laptops can play movies and music. But what's about quality ? Most laptops have shitty LCD panels, and sound well, cheapest codecs, never heard of full hardware sound cards in modern laptops. So forget about good sound unless you're using external sound card, forget about a good picture unless you're using external display.
Why bother with those "superlaptops" then ? It's better to have a normal desktop if you have enough space in your room and inexpensive laptop if you need to move somewhere.
For me, i barely use "normal" laptop at home - i have a quite powerful desktop, so when i need to play a modern game, Dolphin,PCSX2, some heavy game in MAME, or work with Blender/Maya i'll use it for that task. When i need to move to other room, netbook is more than enough, at least i'm able to play SNES/Genesis/NeoGeo/etc games for 6-7 hours on battery, laptop lasts only for a 2 hours or so, not to mention that when i played just a CPS-2 game it heats enough to cook something