(04-24-2012, 08:54 PM)bret emerald Wrote: [ -> ]Thermal design power has everything to do with how much thermal energy a cooling solution for the cpu will have to dissipate and NOTHING to do with how much you will save in your electricity bill.
I lol'd it DOES effect how much power is used in some way or another
I also got some reading for you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power
(04-24-2012, 10:46 PM)ExtremeDude2 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2012, 08:54 PM)bret emerald Wrote: [ -> ]Thermal design power has everything to do with how much thermal energy a cooling solution for the cpu will have to dissipate and NOTHING to do with how much you will save in your electricity bill.
I lol'd it DOES effect how much power is used in some way or another
I also got some reading for you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power
Haha I think you need to reread the article that you linked to, it completely backs up the point that I was trying to make. Sorry if I'm being offensive but you are certainly not alone in your lack of knowledge on the subject (TDP is often a very misinterpreted term).
A general trend in the electronics industry is that something that consumes more power is more likely to generate more heat output, but it is not exclusively so, as is the case here whereby Ivy Bridge uses less power but generates more heat.
In its official definition, TDP only relates to the amount of cooling that a cpu will need to keep it in safe limits, therefore power consumption doesn't come into the equation.
To exemplify, if cpu 'A' uses 50W but needs to dissipate 100W of thermal energy, and cpu 'B' uses 100W but only needs to dissipate 50W of thermal energy, which one has the higher TDP? Quite clearly cpu 'A' has the higher TDP because it will need a much better fan to keep it from overheating.
Ivy Bridge generates more heat than Sandy Bridge, therefore should have a higher TDP. It's as simple as that.
Quote:Ivy Bridge generates more heat than Sandy Bridge
Yeah, because of the the smaller Die, right?
(04-25-2012, 12:17 AM)bret emerald Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2012, 10:46 PM)ExtremeDude2 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2012, 08:54 PM)bret emerald Wrote: [ -> ]Thermal design power has everything to do with how much thermal energy a cooling solution for the cpu will have to dissipate and NOTHING to do with how much you will save in your electricity bill.
I lol'd it DOES effect how much power is used in some way or another
I also got some reading for you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power
Haha I think you need to reread the article that you linked to, it completely backs up the point that I was trying to make. Sorry if I'm being offensive but you are certainly not alone in your lack of knowledge on the subject (TDP is often a very misinterpreted term).
You didn't read the part I wanted you to :p
Quote:While a processor with a TDP of 100 W will almost certainly use more power at full load than a processor with a 10 W TDP, it may or may not use more power than a processor from a different manufacturer that has a 90 W TDP.
(04-24-2012, 10:41 PM)dannzen Wrote: [ -> ] (04-24-2012, 08:54 PM)bret emerald Wrote: [ -> ]It's important to remember that even a 10degree C thermal differential in average cpu usage can halve its life expectancy.
Infinitv / 2 = Infinitiv
... give some proofs about the average cpu lifetime ...
Intel CPU Cooler(Full Load) = 80°-90°
x-Custom CPU Cooler(Full Load) = 40-50°
+ 1ghz overclock
= so overclocked my cpu holds 6times longer than with stock cooler?
give some information about the expected lifetime of a cpu 
silicium is really resistent to heat and aging
Sorry for making such a generalised statement without explanation. I'll do my best to explain a bit.
The 10degrees C thing is really just a very rough rule of thumb that a lot of overclockers have used for years.
If Intel specify a cpu with Tcase of 73degrees, and you run it at stock voltage with average core temps of 73degrees over the course of its lifecycle, statistically speaking you should just make it through the warranty period (some cpus might be 3yrs, others 2yrs). There will always be outliers and some will not last that long. If your voltage is the same and your temps are 10degrees cooler on average, statistically speaking you should expect the cpu to last roughly double the original time frame.
Tjunction on the other hand is the thermal point at which the cpu will start throttling itself to prevent damage, and if you further increase the temperature you risk damaging the cpu (even for short periods of time). Tj is a core temp measurement, while Tc is taken from the centre point on top where the heatsink connects to the cpu.
It seems the Tjunction for Ivy Bridge desktops is 99degrees C, only 1degree higher than Sandy Bridge. I'd expect the mobile parts to be a bit higher.
PS. In the example you gave, you should not expect the cpu to last 6 times longer than with the stock cooler because you have no doubt increased voltage significantly.
Someone please correct me if I have misinterpreted something.
Quote:The i7 3770k runs significantly hotter than the i7 2600k and should therefore be labelled with a higher TDP, somewhere in the region of 125W. This can be seen by looking at the graph below from 'Tweaktown', if you assume the 2600k is 95W and then normalise the graph.
http://cdn5.tweaktown.com/content/4/6/46...review.png
I also find it very disappointing that a lot of popular review sites didn't even publish thermal results( cough 'Anandtech'). I also see no evidence so far to suggest that Ivy bridge is any more resilient to heat than Sandy Bridge, and is something we won't know until Intel publish the Tcase and Tjunction for the cpus. It's important to remember that even a 10degree C thermal differential in average cpu usage can halve its life expectancy.
One last point, Ivy bridge is supposed to be much better for notebooks, but as the owner of 2 Sandy bridge ones (one was given to me in work), the biggest problem I have with them is excessive heat and irritating fan noise. Surely Ivy Bridge will just make the problem worse.
Sorry for the rant, but as a consumer I wish companies like Intel were more transparent and honest about product information.
Temperature != TDP != heat generated
A cpu can generate more heat and still have a lower TDP if the max safe temperature is higher. Intel is correct in their use of the term TDP.
Quote:Yeah, because of the the smaller Die, right?
No.
No point in upgrading from Sandy Bridge?
Good?
Keep moving, nothing to see here.
Quote:No point in upgrading from Sandy Bridge?
Good?
It is worth it if you go from a i5 2300 to a i5 3570K.
(04-25-2012, 11:33 AM)MaJoR Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:No point in upgrading from Sandy Bridge?
Good?
It is worth it if you go from a i5 2300 to a i5 3570K.
Same could be said for the 2500k.
Don't see why I should bother.
Why not? Ivy bridge is the same price but better.