Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums

The argument here is not that clock rate "doesn't matter with new chips." It is that clock rate among different architectures are not apples and oranges!

Quote:Unfortunately since dolphin is dual threaded and doesn't benefit from a large cache, out of order execution, high memory bandwidth, or any other advantages that the newer chips have it's performance per clock is on par with a core 2 duo IN DOLPHIN. A core 2 duo @ 3 GHz would cream an i7 720m/920m in dolphin.

You are not understanding what turbo boost is, and are getting too caught up in the base clock on the i7 720qm, as others continue to tell you. You say dolphin is dual threaded. This means that the i7 will turbo boost to 2.4 ghz if it is using two cores. However, each core in the i7 uses hyperthreading, which means the i7 may use one core operating at a speed of 2.8 ghz. These scores are not for you to compare (apples and oranges), but to show that the i7 720qm does not run at stock 1.60 ghz on any application, unless it will make use of more than seven threads, and at such high threads clock will not matter as highly over power requirements. Compare that 2.8 ghz speed on a brand new architecture to that 3 ghz core 2 duo. Doesn't look to spiffy now, does it? You may even try comparing that 3 ghz core 2 duo to a 3.2 ghz pentium 4.

Quote:It is sufficient for most games thanks to turbo boost. I agree with you on this. I would like to point out that this is not what I'm arguing against, I'm arguing against your idea that clock rate doesn't matter with new chips. If he turned off turbo boost and the chip actually ran at 1.6 GHz it would perform terribly in dolphin regardless of anything else, simple because of the low clock rate.

People don't just turn off turbo boost, unless they are doing something special with their processor (i.e. overclocking) turbo boost is built into the processor like your q6600 has four cores. It's called powergating, the brand new six core amds are doing it lol (though not as well). This is a legitimate way of reducing power consumption, so that these newer, more efficient processors can do better then those core 2 duos in the same power envelope. Fact is the processor won't let you run dolphin at a low speed unless it was broken.

Quote:The point was not to really compare processors (which is off topic). It's just that every day somebody makes a post which states somebody's clock frequency is too slow for dolphin without even considering whether it's a P4 or a thuban 1090T. It's just a dumb analogy.

A Pentium4 will perform horribly on dolphin no matter how high it's overclocked, whereas more recent processors will have "o.k." performance on stock frequencies. There is a world of difference beyond just the amount of clock cycles per second.

Yes but what I've been trying to say this entire time is that's wrong! Anything past C2D has the exact same performance per clock in dolphin, that's not opinion, it's fact. So actually it's a smart analogy. Now C2D has a significantly higher performance per clock than pentium 4 in dolphin for 2 reasons (assuming your running the 32 bit version, otherwise their is an obvious third advantage) 1. 2 cores and 2. Branch prediction. But these are basically the only two things that change performance per clock in dolphin.

Quote:People don't just turn off turbo boost, unless they are doing something special with their processor

I know. I was just trying to make the point that at a low clock rate an i7 would be slow in dolphin. He's trying to say clock rate doesn't really matter with the newer chips, and that's just plain wrong.

Quote:Fact is the processor won't let you run dolphin at a low speed unless it was broken

Or if it gets really hot (like almost all laptops do). Clean your laptops people!

Quote:turbo boost is built into the processor like your q6600 has four cores. It's called powergating, the brand new six core amds are doing it lol (though not as well). This is a legitimate way of reducing power consumption, so that these newer, more efficient processors can do better then those core 2 duos in the same power envelope.

C-state powergate and turbo boost are two completely different things. Thuban has turbo core which is amds equivalent of turbo boost but it does not have an equivalent c-state technology.

Quote:It is that clock rate among different architectures are not apples and oranges!

A point that both me and ocean have made several times each. I think you need to reread our posts.

Quote:Compare that 2.8 ghz speed on a brand new architecture to that 3 ghz core 2 duo. Doesn't look to spiffy now, does it? You may even try comparing that 3 ghz core 2 duo to a 3.2 ghz pentium 4. Rolleyes

Believe it or not the 3 Ghz core 2 duo would still win. As I stated before performance per clock in dolphin is identical.

Quote:You are not understanding what turbo boost is, and are getting too caught up in the base clock on the i7 720qm, as others continue to tell you. You say dolphin is dual threaded. This means that the i7 will turbo boost to 2.4 ghz if it is using two cores. However, each core in the i7 uses hyperthreading, which means the i7 may use one core operating at a speed of 2.8 ghz. These scores are not for you to compare (apples and oranges), but to show that the i7 720qm does not run at stock 1.60 ghz on any application, unless it will make use of more than seven threads, and at such high threads clock will not matter as highly over power requirements.

....wow. I cannot believe you said that. We both clearly understand turbo boost since we've talked about it. Your completely missing the point of the argument. Also please keep in mind that logical threads are very different from physical threads. If in i7 used two logical threads for dolphin on one physical thread running at 2.8GHz dolphin would run at half speed since brand prediction makes up for any gaps in the buffer/pipeline.

Quote:Clock rates should not be used when comparing different CPUs families. Rather, software benchmarks should be used. Clock rates can be very misleading since the amount of work different CPUs can do in one cycle varies.

.....Ok this one honestly made me laugh. Software benchmarks are the last thing you should use, especially synthetics. Synthetics make use of extensive multithreading, cache size, memory bandwidth, etc. Things that don't make any difference at all in 99.999999999999% of applications INCLUDING DOLPHIN. Clock rates are the best way we have to compare cpus in different families as long as they are dual core and use branch prediction. Obviously clock rates are misleading for those few applications that do benefit from other improvements (like video encoding for example) but you you should not go around telling people to completely ignore the clock rate because it doesn't really matter, it still matters more than any other variable even in this day and age.

Sorry that I get like this in these types of "debates" but it just really pisses me off when people complain about how they upgraded from a core 2 duo to an i7 and didn't get any improvement in speed (in dolphin). And it's because certain people go around telling them that these upgrades will actually make a difference. They won't most apps won't care that you have an i7 it will still perform the same as any other modern dual core @ 3 GHz.

Now I must run as I have somehow managed to start yet another quickly escalating flame war by offering a second opinion....sigh...Also I hereby claim the award for most quotes in a single post on dolphin-emu forums .

I dunno about all those stats and stuff, but now, by improving the config (thanks to this useful link: http://www.dolphin-emu.org/configuration-explanation.html), closing all useless tasks and programs, and by setting "cpu speed" to "high" in the "energy savings" panel, i can play Mario Kart GC and WII at full speed. Wonderful!

Thanks everyone!
Fede