Wii VGA Cable

[NaturalViolence]

Alright I've now read through those threads. Basically nobody knows what they're talking about which is pretty normal for an internet forum. I still don't know if these people are using PAL or NTSC consoles and what type of cable they're using. They're either doing YPbPr over vga, RGB over vga on a pal console, or using a cable with a built in 15KHz passive YPbPr->RGB converter. I have no idea which and can't begin to diagnose the problem until I know for sure.

Signal cutting out can be caused by an issue with the port on the display, the cable itself, or the source device. The Wii is the most likely culprit out of the three but without more information we can't rule out the other two for sure.

You've listed two potential causes so far neither of which makes a lot of sense:

1. Switching between 480p and 480i. While this could still be the case I highly doubt it. On an hdtv the same thing would likely happen over a component connection if it were switching between the two. It takes awhile for digital displays to switch input modes regardless of which type of input you're using. The other reason I doubt it is because the youtube video you linked shows it happening randomly during ordinary gameplay. It makes no sense for the game to be switching between 480i and 480p during real time combat. While this seems to be the most touted theory in those forums you linked nobody there seems to have any reason why they believe this is the case or any evidence to back it up.
2. PAL vs. NTSC. You haven't stated why you think this could be causing the issue so there isn't much I can say here. Especially since the threads you linked don't mention it. As far as the refresh rate is concerned that shouldn't effect anything as long as they're high quality cables. Wii games don't switch refresh rates midgame either, so we can rule that out. The only other difference I can think of off the top of my head is the availability of RGB output. And that shouldn't cause this either. Why do you think this issue is only happening on PAL consoles?

Edit: The safest route would be to get a YPbPr to RGB converter: http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-Component-YpbPr-Audio-Converter/dp/B009GUQYBO/ref=sr_1_3?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1373325619&sr=1-3&keywords=component+to+vga+converter
and a wii component cable: http://www.amazon.com/Component-AV-Cable-Nintendo-Wii-HDTV/dp/B000OFSBL6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373326036&sr=8-1&keywords=wii+component+cable
for $50.

I'm going to assume that you live in the US.

[shoober420]

(07-09-2013, 07:55 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: If you've already decided that all of that is correct then why did you ask me if it was correct? Do you have any idea how infuriating that is?

You mad bro? I never asked you if anything I said was correct.

(07-09-2013, 07:55 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: There are three different types of cables you could use for this. So no, you didn't. You were far too vague. You also didn't list any of your sources in your original post.

Like AON3 said you now have context, so now it makes sense.

They aren't different at all. They are all the same, just made by different companies.

(07-09-2013, 07:55 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: If it's a PAL console maybe. But the NTSC consoles don't support RGB output at all: http://gamesx.com/wiki/doku.php?id=av:wii_multi_av_pinout

And without opening them you don't know if they have a converter inside. With that price range and size they could. But if they work with both NTSC and PAL consoles they have to.

Okay, I found this thread that states that the cable does indeed have a converter inside. So nevermind.

(07-09-2013, 07:55 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: This is objectively false. There are plenty of genuine disadvantages that CRT displays have regardless of which you think is better.

In terms of picture quality, yes it does. In everyway.

(07-09-2013, 07:55 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: Completely wrong. Upscaling by nature makes aliasing more visible, not less. It makes it larger and thus more visible. Even if you don't understand the logic behind it you can easily test it yourself and verify it.

I disagree. I've seen videos on youtube where a PS2 for example was upscaling to 1080p, and the jaggies were less prominent since the image was so blurry.

(07-09-2013, 07:55 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: I don't know where you got this from but this is completely false. All phosphor displays exhibit some degree of color bleed. LCDs by nature do not. This is why CRT shaders always have a Gaussian blur or some other type of blur built in to mimic the effect. The color of pixels bleeds into neighboring pixels and causes a blur effect. This also has the side effect of reducing visible aliasing.

You can reduce the effect of this by reducing the voltage of the cathode ray emitter.

The only time I have ever seen a CRT suffer from color bleeding is when either the color was turned up too high, or they were using a low quality input for video like RF. Low end CRT's may have this problem but I haven't seen it on any one of the CRT's I have.

(07-09-2013, 07:55 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: 30 bit panels have been widely available for ages. And 24 bit color has nothing to do with IPS, TN, or VA technology.

My bad, but its still doesn't display as much colors as a CRT can. I only said IPS because they seem to be the only LCD's capable of display that many colors.

(07-09-2013, 07:55 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: This is kind of true. But CRTs don't technically display digital signals at all. You can't compare them that way. Their color reproduction is limited by a number of other factors that don't have anything to do with bitdepth. I would also like to point out here that bit depth deals with color precision rather than gamut and that pretty much all content out there is 24 bit or lower anyways.

And 32 bit isn't a standard RGB bit depth. You won't find any graphics cards that support it. We have 30 bit RGB and we have 32 bit RGBA (24 bit RGB + 8 bit alpha).

I would have to disagree with you on that. Most PC games have the ability to render 32-bit color textures. I would say consoles are mostly 24-bit. but PC is most definitely 32-bit most of the time.

When you say 32-bit RGBA, are you telling me that when I select 32-bit color under properties in Windows, that its using 32-bit RGBA and not 32-bit RGB?

(07-09-2013, 10:40 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: 1. Switching between 480p and 480i. While this could still be the case I highly doubt it. On an hdtv the same thing would likely happen over a component connection if it were switching between the two. It takes awhile for digital displays to switch input modes regardless of which type of input you're using. The other reason I doubt it is because the youtube video you linked shows it happening randomly during ordinary gameplay. It makes no sense for the game to be switching between 480i and 480p during real time combat. While this seems to be the most touted theory in those forums you linked nobody there seems to have any reason why they believe this is the case or any evidence to back it up.

If you notice in the No More Heroes gameplay video, it happens right after he kills someone. Someone mentioned in the comments that it for some reason will switch to 480i for the death animation of an enemy.

(07-09-2013, 10:40 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: 2. PAL vs. NTSC. You haven't stated why you think this could be causing the issue so there isn't much I can say here. Especially since the threads you linked don't mention it. As far as the refresh rate is concerned that shouldn't effect anything as long as they're high quality cables. Wii games don't switch refresh rates midgame either, so we can rule that out. The only other difference I can think of off the top of my head is the availability of RGB output. And that shouldn't cause this either. Why do you think this issue is only happening on PAL consoles?

I read on some of those forums that someone said that it could be a refresh rate issue like you said, since PAL is 50Hz and NTSC is 60Hz. I highly doubted this theory, I just added it just in case.

But regardless of that, upon learning that the VGA contains a converter and that the Wii doesn't natively output in VGA, I don't want it anymore. I do have a VGA box for my Dreamcast, but the Dreamcast does indeed natively output a VGA signal. So nevermind guys. I will go with the component cables. I just need to buy a TV that has component input, as the only TV I have with any decent input is S-Video. Thanks for the information NaturalViolence.

[Scootaloo]

"I would have to disagree with you on that most in 24 bit or lower. Most PC games have the ability to render 32-bit color textures."

Excuse me if this sounds dull, but what is the difference between rendering 32-bit color textures and actually displaying them in 32-bit or they simply display on the monitor? I'm unsure.

[shoober420]

(07-09-2013, 11:48 AM)Scootaloo Wrote: Excuse me if this sounds dull, but what is the difference between rendering 32-bit color textures and actually displaying them in 32-bit or they simply display on the monitor? I'm unsure.

The textures will still look more life like. But the main reason CRT's still have an edge over LCD is the response time and input lag. That is the main reason I stick to CRT's. I can't stand LCD lag.

[NaturalViolence]

shoober420 Wrote:You mad bro? I never asked you if anything I said was correct.

Yes I am mad. Are you proud of that?

And yes you did ask me if it was correct. Go back and read your post:

shoober420 Wrote:I've been thinking about getting a VGA cable for my Wii, so I can hook it up to my CRT computer monitor and use 480p. The only thing that's stopping me from purchasing one is that I've read that there are problems with it. One being that the screen will fade to black every so often for a couple of seconds. There are two supposed reasons for this happening, one being that even if the Wii is set to 480p mode, it will still display random 480i images, which VGA can't display, hence the monitor going black for a couple seconds. Another reason is that it has to do with PAL and NTSC, and that it only effects PAL systems. I've also read some reviews that it works perfectly fine. So I'm puzzled as to if this black screen would happen to me if I was playing. Does anyone know if this is true?

So basically you posted a bunch of stuff you heard about some products on the internet. Didn't link to the products or to the sources you were talking about. And you asked if any of these claims you read were true.

I then responded by asking for the information, telling you the claims were false, and explaining to you why they were false.

You then fired back a lengthy response about how I was wrong and the claims were in fact true according to what you had read. Which begs the obvious question, why did you ask if they were true?

As a result of this type of behavior you are quickly making more and more enemies on this forum. So far you already have more than anyone that I've seen in the 4 years that I've been here. Do you really want to be known as "that annoying guy that everybody hates" in this community? If not you might consider not doing this kind of stuff to the people who take the time to answer your questions. Otherwise sooner or later all of the members of this community that are intelligent enough to answer your questions won't want to put up with you anymore and will just let the threads die unanswered.

If you didn't want me to answer. Then don't ask. Because you just made me waste of lot of time that I could have spent studying. And that makes me "mad bro".

shoober420 Wrote:They aren't different at all. They are all the same, just made by different companies.

You didn't link to any of them in the OP. So how was I supposed to know that?

The point is there are three kinds of cables that could do what you were referring to so I asked which one. It's that simple. I don't know why you made a big deal over providing that information.

shoober420 Wrote:Okay, I found this thread that states that the cable does indeed have a converter inside. So nevermind.

So in other words you immediately assumed that I was wrong without even looking it up.

Please stop doing that. I already told you in your other thread to start googling things before posting them if you're unsure. But I'll remind you again here.

shoober420 Wrote:In terms of picture quality, yes it does. In everyway.

You might be able to argue that they are better overall. But "in everyway" is objectively wrong as this means there are no disadvantages what so ever. Just to list some examples LCDs are sharper at their native resolution than CRTs and don't have the geometry issues that CRTs have. Todays LCDs can also produce wider color gamuts and more accurate color gamuts.

shoober420 Wrote:I disagree. I've seen videos on youtube where a PS2 for example was upscaling to 1080p, and the jaggies were less prominent since the image was so blurry.

Once again you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what upscaling is and how it works. When you turn on upscaling on your PS2 the PS2 upscales the image before passing it to the TV so that the TV doesn't have to scale it. When you turn off upscaling on the PS2 the TV upscales the image instead of the PS2, but it's still upscaled. You were not comparing upscaling against no upscaling. You were comparing TV upscaling against PS2 upscaling. Upscaling will always make aliasing more visible to some degree.

I should also point out that different TVs have different scalers and different settings. So how the two look compared to one another will depend on which model of TV you're using and what the settings are. By default most HDTVs have the sharpness setting cranked up out of the box to make SD TV channels and DVDs look better since that's what most people use them for. With the right model of TV and a low sharpness setting the TV scaler may actually produce a more blurred image than the PS2 scaler.

shoober420 Wrote:The only time I have ever seen a CRT suffer from color bleeding is when either the color was turned up too high, or they were using a low quality input for video like RF. Low end CRT's may have this problem but I haven't seen it on any one of the CRT's I have.

Every CRT display ever tested has had it. You just don't notice it.

shoober420 Wrote:My bad, but its still doesn't display as much colors as a CRT can. I only said IPS because they seem to be the only LCD's capable of display that many colors.

Incorrect. Today's high end LCD panels outperform even the best CRTs in color gamut accuracy and width. Granted only the $1000+ wide gamut LCDs can do this but it's not really fair to compare the old $2000 sony trinitrons against a $200 LCD monitor anyways.

shoober420 Wrote:I would have to disagree with you on that. Most PC games have the ability to render 32-bit color textures.

Only with an alpha component.

shoober420 Wrote:I would say consoles are mostly 24-bit. but PC is most definitely 32-bit most of the time.

That's completely wrong. I know that you're just pulling this out of thin air because there is no way you found a source to make you believe that. Console and PC games both commonly use 32 bit RGBA and 24 bit RGB colorspace for textures these days. And most console/PC games are crossplatform these days. Using the same texture files just scaled to different resolutions.

Since the color portion of the framebuffer is 32 bit RGBA there is no point in using anything higher than that for textures since it will just get compressed to 24/32 bit during rendering.

shoober420 Wrote:When you say 32-bit RGBA, are you telling me that when I select 32-bit color under properties in Windows, that its using 32-bit RGBA and not 32-bit RGB?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. It shouldn't even be labeled 32 bit since monitors don't receive the alpha component. The actual display output is 24 bit RGB.

shoober420 Wrote:Someone mentioned in the comments that it for some reason will switch to 480i for the death animation of an enemy.

I'm willing to bet that person is just pulling that out of thin air.

That doesn't make any sense. The death animations are just regular animations. There is no reason why the game should switch to 480i output once those specific animations are triggered.

shoober420 Wrote:So nevermind guys. I will go with the component cables. I just need to buy a TV that has component input, as the only TV I have with any decent input is S-Video.

Why is the fact that it converts YPbPr to RGB such a big deal that you need to spend hundreds of dollars on a new display instead of just using your monitor?

All CRTs use RGB internally anyways so your new TV will have to convert the YPbPr input to RGB anyways.

shoober420 Wrote:Thanks for the information NaturalViolence.

Ask and you shall receive. I'm more than glad to answer questions and give out information.

But tell me I'm wrong without taking the time to look something up and I'm going to get pissed. The information that you're thanking me for is what I told you in the first post I made, the one that you said was wrong. You only changed your mind once you took the time to look it up on your own since you didn't believe me.

Normally when someone asks a question I either answer it or ask for more information. People don't usually complain about giving me this information or about my answer unless they disagree with it. And if they disagree with it they usually have a good reason and possibly even some sources to back it up. And usually if they're not sure about something they look it up before claiming it's true/false. If you just start doing these things nobody will have to deal with pissed off people or long drawn out discussions about fluff. And the forums will be a better place for the both of us.

I do appreciate the thank you. But you still need to do these things.

Scootaloo Wrote:Excuse me if this sounds dull, but what is the difference between rendering 32-bit color textures and actually displaying them in 32-bit or they simply display on the monitor? I'm unsure.

If the texture color depth is higher than the framebuffer color depth it will have to be resampled (compressed) during rendering. Having a monitor that can reproduce the full range of colors represented by the texture will increase color fidelity.

[Starscream]

Time for shoober420 and his nonsense to go away now, say goodbye.

Closed.