Wii Backwards Compatibility

[NaturalViolence]

He's all yours shonumi. I'm not repeating myself any more.

[shoober420]

Do you guys pee on your poop or poop on your pee?

[mbc07]

I don't have a lot of knowledge about this subject, so, correct any mistake, but I will try to make simple: for this example I will use higan, but any other 2D emulator apply too, well, when you say higan allow raising the internal resolution, it's like you're saying that higan make the emulated SNES CPU/GPU get a fixed size sprite (native resolution, if you prefer) and draw this thing at the higher internal resolution, but this is completely wrong, because an emulator can't predict how this data (sprite) should look at higher resolutions. So, the emulator still run the game at the fixed native resolution (for SNES, 256x244 if I'm not wrong), but before showing the image it does use an scaling/interpolation (which term you prefer) to get this image at the resolution you have chosen. It looks sharper because higan probably is using Nearest Neighborhood method...

For 3D emulators, they really raise the internal resolution that the image is being rendered, because polygons doesn't have a fixed (native) resolution, however, textures are like sprites, because they have a fixed (native) resolution. So, in 3D case, the object will look sharper and less aliased, but if it uses fixed (native) resolution elements, like textures, these elements will be scaled to higher resolutions too, using methods like Bilinear Filtering and others...

Conclusion, nowadays, only some 3D consoles emulator does allow raising the internal resolution, 2D emulators and other will upscale/filter the original image to a high resolution (the MaJor screenshots show the differences pretty well)...

[Shonumi]

(06-28-2013, 07:37 AM)shoober420 Wrote: Do you guys pee on your poop or poop on your pee?

That isn't an intelligent response... to anything. Unless you're obtusely trying to imply that "upscaling" the internal resolution and increasing the internal resolution are the same difference (or if you prefer, a difference without distinction). That's still not the case as we've pointed out numerously. Upscaling an image is fundamentally different from increasing the internal resolution on a technical level.

Please remember, we're correcting you for your edification, not our own entertainment. This is an opportunity to learn something about emulation. We're not trying to attack you (really, no one's thrown an ad hominem yet); lesser forums and online venues would have been outright rude to someone such as yourself (or users in general). If we see information that's not accurate, we correct it. Everyone's worse off if no one does anything about it; people will digest misinformation without knowing the facts, and that's to the benefit of none.

You haven't provided a single rebuttal to any of my points, which is a bit disconcerting given the care I took in preparing them. We just want you to understand where it is your logic isn't holding up. I would suggest that you take some time to do a bit of research before your next response; there have been a number of useful links and pictures posted (ahem, like my blog ).

[Scootaloo]

(06-28-2013, 02:12 PM)Shonumi Wrote:

(06-28-2013, 07:37 AM)shoober420 Wrote:
Do you guys pee on your poop or poop on your pee?

Please remember, we're correcting you for your edification, not our own entertainment. This is an opportunity to learn something about emulation. We're not trying to attack you (really, no one's thrown an ad hominem yet); lesser forums and online venues would have been outright rude to someone such as yourself. If we see information that's not accurate, we correct it. Everyone's worse off if no one does anything about it; people will digest misinformation without knowing the facts, and that's to the benefit of none.

If it makes a difference, I'm entertained by all of this.

[Shonumi]

scootaloo Wrote:If it makes a difference, I'm entertained by all of this.

But we're not correcting shoober420 because we think it would entertaining, we do it because we genuinely want to minimize the amount of misinformation (which the Internet perpetually produces). The flow of discussion can certainly be interesting, but my point was that we don't use that as an excuse to go about correcting people (well, maybe not NV ).

[shoober420]

Shonumi, I didn't mean to make you feel remorse for typing all that. I simply don't want to argue anymore. I just don't agree with you or NaturalViolence about more then half of what you say. HLE emulators far outweigh the accurate LLE emulators that don't allow increasing the internal resolution. I will not be told that HLE emulation that allows increasing the internal resolution is not a common feature and that LLE emulators are more abundant. I just do not agree. I personally believe that there are far less LLE emulators then HLE ones.

I also feel that saying upscaling internal resolution can be used for saying increasing internal resolution. When I first said it, I was wrong because I wasn't specific enough. But I see nothing wrong in saying upscaling the internal resolution to mean increasing internal resolution. Will I ever say upscaling the internal resolution again? Most likely not, to avoid confusion.

As for the sprites, and 2D emulators increasing the internal resolution, I'll take your word for it. Its just when I see games that are upscaled, they look blurry and the pixels blend together. I haven't come across a sharp looking upscale, which is why I assumed that 2D emulators upped the native resolution to whatever you choose. It just looks so sharp, that I couldn't think it was an upscale. I'm still having a hard time believing it. But upon learning this, I'm going to build an Windows 98 machine to play DOS games at there native resolutions (320x200 mostly). My video card won't let me use resolutions that small (640x480 being the smallest). So thanks for explaining all that, I now long for viewing all games in there native resolutions to keep the pixel art authentic and unscaled.

[Qaazavaca Qaanic]

LOLOL don't do 98.
You can use windowed mode on the original resolution to play it near the original, you could use linear/bilinear/bicubic to play blurry (I personally dislike), and you could use nearest scaling which shows the individual pixels (very sharp but not that authentic). There are special TV filters that make it blurry and do some other magic to make it look like a TV, which I personally don't care for. In my opinion, the best choice is using an image filter, which is an "intelligent" upscaling algorithm that makes the image look less pixellated but not blurry. But it's not the internal resolution, but it's pretty much the best you can get for 2d games. I like hq2/3/4x myself.

[pauldacheez]

(06-29-2013, 07:02 AM)shoober420 Wrote: I personally believe that there are far less LLE emulators then HLE ones.

This depends on the console being emulated more than anything – HLE is utilized quite often for newer consoles, but most 2D console emulators almost exclusively LLE all the hardware. (And there's massive amounts of GB/NES/SNES emulators out there, so I doubt your "personal belief" is even correct...)

You shouldn't really refer to them as HLE or LLE emulators anyway, they all use a mix. higan/bsnes is ostensibly an LLE emulator, but it used to HLE certain SNES add-on chips, and conversely you can't really HLE any CPU of a different architecture, even if you're as full of HLE as Project64 is.

(06-29-2013, 07:02 AM)shoober420 Wrote: But upon learning this, I'm going to build an Windows 98 machine to play DOS games at there native resolutions (320x200 mostly).

I dunno about proper DOSbox, but a Mac port of it, Boxer, offers a no-filtering option (and also, when resizing the window, snaps it to certain sizes that are exact multiples of the native resolution).

[shoober420]

(06-29-2013, 07:37 AM)jimbo1qaz Wrote: LOLOL don't do 98.
You can use windowed mode on the original resolution to play it near the original

Well, the thing is, I want to play it fullscreen. What if I kept it in windowed mode and just maximized the window to be fullscreen? Wouldn't that upscale the image?

I personally also hate filters for 2D games. I feel it destroys the original look the pixel artist wanted you to see it.

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(06-29-2013, 07:57 AM)pauldacheez Wrote: This depends on the console being emulated more than anything – HLE is utilized quite often for newer consoles, but most 2D consoles almost exclusively LLE all the hardware.

Not until recently have LLE emulators sprung up with the rise of overall CPU power. Back then, even 2D emulators were mostly HLE, like nesticle for example (I'm pretty sure its an HLE emulator). They are definitely way more HLE emulators then LLE ones. I also can say HLE and LLE, because LLE emulators do NOT allow to increase internal resolution. Main reason being, they are after accuracy. LLE goes for accuracy, and HLE goes for better graphics and/or speed.