Why is Dolphin GC emulating slow and how can I fix it?

[crashisgod]

I'd list comp specs but I already did at registration so I'm guessing you can see them. Dolphin seems to work perfectly with Wii emulation, they all run at 100%, but for some reason all Gamecube games are significantly slowed down, and despite adjustments to settings the speed is unaffected. I have tried everything in the Performance Guide (https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=Performance_Guide ) I even disabled EFB Copies altogether and everything else to boost speed and the most simple game I have (The Sims 1) still runs at most 70%, the second game in the series The Sims Bustin Out runs around 40%, while The Sims 3 for Wii runs at 100%. I can run very demanding computer games like Diablo 3 at maximum settings but I can't run old GC games? I am using 4.0 (the latest stable version for Mac) But just now I downloaded the latest development version, 4.0-1478 and I noticed the game has jumped from running between 63-73% on average to 73-85% on average and Sims Bustin Out jumped from around 40% to around 55% (jumping between 30-80% periodically, bringing it from unplayable to playable with a great deal of patience in my book) (very short testing with the dev version) and this is with the same settings. Disabling EFB Copies still makes no difference, I guess its just not something the game uses or the functions broken in the Mac version. Either way I don't see how it could possibly be the demands of the game slowing Dolphin down, my CPU is running at 2% and I have a couple unused GB of RAM while the game is running. The fact that it speeds up simply by using a different version tells me it might be how Dolphin was programmed. Other games had a more significant impact, Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance jumped from an unplayable 40% to 100% without any lag. Some games like The Sims 2 Pets doesn't run at all in 4.0 but runs fine but at around 83% in 4.0-1478. But some games cause Dolphin to crash on both versions (Avatar - The Last Airbender). If you have any ideas not listed in the Performance Guide let me know.

P.S. All the gamecube games I mentioned run at 100% at the main screen, but slow down during gameplay.

[mbc07]

Different games have different requirements, so, the GC games you're trying to run are more demanding than the Wii games you played (probably lightweight). Try Wind Waker or TimeSplitters, for example, they'll probably run full speed in your computer and both are GC games. Now, try to run any Metroid Prime game or The Last Story/Xenoblade Chronicles from Wii, even the fastest processors available for Dolphin at moment will suffer some kind of slowdown. Your CPU is weak for the GC games you're trying to run (that probably are demanding since they're from EA), and that's the reason you wrongly think GC emulation is more demanding (it doesn't matter if it's a Wii or GC game, some are demanding, some not)...

crashisgod Wrote:I can run very demanding computer games like Diablo 3 at maximum settings but I can't run old GC games?

Yes, because Dolphin isn't a PC game. Newcomers always come here and think that, and we're sick of answering the same question again and again. For short, PC games need powerful GPU, Dolphin need powerful CPU (specifically, models with higher IPC rates, so, avoid AMD CPUs/APUs at any cost). If you want more complete answers, just go in any other similar thread (we have a loooooot of them)...

(04-27-2014, 02:41 PM)crashisgod Wrote: Either way I don't see how it could possibly be the demands of the game slowing Dolphin down, my CPU is running at 2% and I have a couple unused GB of RAM while the game is running. The fact that it speeds up simply by using a different version tells me it might be how Dolphin was programmed.

Although you hadn't listed the full CPU model, it's probably an old Xeon from an old architecture that have low IPC. Dolphin uses only two (or three) cores, so, having two CPUs and/or 8 cores will not help with speed. You need a better CPU (in fact, even a single i3 4130 processor would outperform your two current Xeon, and is much more cheap).

Since the weak point here is probably your CPU, the only things you can do is overclocking (although I don't know if that's possible on Mac), upgrading your computer or using old Dolphin versions. Old versions = less accuratte, so, in most cases, faster. However, keep in mind that they also have bugs that were already fixed in the latest development versions and because of that, they are unsupported. In other words, if you opt out using anything older than the latest stable release (4.0.2 at the moment), you will get no support from the forums, you will have to deal with any possible issue alone...

[crashisgod]

(04-27-2014, 03:12 PM)Jhonn Wrote: Different games have different requirements, so, the GC games you're trying to run are more demanding than the Wii games you played (probably lightweight).

How is The Sims 1 for Gamecube more demanding than The Sims 3 for Wii? Illogical.

(04-27-2014, 03:12 PM)Jhonn Wrote: Your CPU is weak for the GC games you're trying to run (that probably are demanding since they're from EA), and that's the reason you wrongly think GC emulation is more demanding (it doesn't matter if it's a Wii or GC game, some are demanding, some not)...

Yes, because Dolphin isn't a PC game. Newcomers always come here and think that, and we're sick of answering the same question again and again. For short, PC games need powerful GPU, Dolphin need powerful CPU (specifically, models with higher IPC rates, so, avoid AMD CPUs/APUs at any cost).

The Sims 1?? Are you kidding? I have The Sims 3 for PC as well and it runs perfectly, barely effects my CPU and its many many times more demanding with its open world than The Sims 1 with its little box lot of a world.

My CPU is far superior than my GPU. An actual Gamecube has a IBM PowerPC "Gekko", 485MHz (Single Core Processor), a Wii uses a IBM PowerPC "Broadway" CPU (single core, clocked at 729MHz), I am using Two 3.2GHz (I've never before owned a CPU higher) Quad-Core Intel Xeon Processors (8 Processor Cores). I am aware of the differences between games designed for PC vs Console, in general PC games are more demanding on the CPU and GPU because they can be, unlike a console PCs aren't limited to some cheap 485MHz single core for example. The reason I referenced the fact that my GPU can handle Diablo 3, is because my CPU and RAM are barely being effected by the games I run in Dolphin which I pointed out in the initial post. I can track my CPU and RAM use (iStats Menu) but not my GPU so I don't know what the % of use is at but I still don't think that's the reason why its slowing down, it must be the way Dolphin is emulating it, as the speed increased by using the newest developer version on the same settings. If there was a way to run these games directly on my hardware I am certain there would be no lag, limitation is created by emulation software in most cases. Adjusting settings in an emulator can usually fix or at least help it but I've seen no improvement no matter the settings I choose which is strange considering how much I read of the improvement certain settings should give.

(04-27-2014, 03:12 PM)Jhonn Wrote: You need a better CPU (in fact, even a single i3 4130 processor would outperform your two current Xeon, and is much more cheap).

The i3 4130 is 3.4GHz, is 200MHz such a significant difference here? And why should I need 3.4GHz minimum for a game which is designed to run on 485MHz? I wonder if there is something I am not getting, because that sounds ridiculous to me. If Gamecube can run Gamecube games at 485MHz I assume its physically possible for Dolphin to be able to, at least some day.

(04-27-2014, 03:12 PM)Jhonn Wrote: upgrading your computer or using old Dolphin versions.

I just bought this computer, it is a $1529 upgrade from what I had before. I will test it with older versions, but the newer developer version runs faster than the latest stable release so I assume the next latest stable release will work even better, and so on. Which would make me think the older versions would run slower.

(04-27-2014, 03:12 PM)Jhonn Wrote: the latest stable release (4.0.2 at the moment), you will get no support from the forums, you will have to deal with any possible issue alone...

No, the latest stable release for Mac is 4.0. 4.0.1 and 4.0.2 do not have a Mac version. I don't have a choice there. And there isn't much I can do, as my knowledge of computers is primarily with electronics and hardware, not software. I do appreciate your response, despite my perceived tone due to grammatical formatting.

Testing 3.0
Result: Impossible
There is some kind of disconnection between the emulator and the games, even with all controls (Tested both with Keyboard and PS3 Controller) responding in the GCPad setting all the games act as though there is no controller connected.

Testing 3.5
Result: No Improvement + Less Functionality
On The Sims 1 I'm getting between 65% and 75% average with some short fluctuations up and down, about the same as the 4.0-1478

I think I'll stick with 4.0-1478 for now, and hope that 4.0.3 will have a Mac version.

Edit: Just tried 4.0-1487 (todays latest) and it runs even faster than 4.0-1478, 83% on average in The Sims 1 sometimes running at 90% (from 73-85%, so the speed is more stable now). Also The Sims Bustin Out is getting an average of 58% playing at 70-80% sometimes with great fluctuation (from 55% so slightly better but greater speed fluctuation). The JIT Recompiler, the CPU Emulator Engine, was further optimized in this version by Tilka. From what I understand, that could be effecting the speed of emulation. I would like to see what much more optimization might bring for the speeds, perfectly optimized it might eliminate the lag I'm seeing.

[delroth]

Quote:And there isn't much I can do, as my knowledge of computers is primarily with electronics and hardware, not software

Then maybe you should stop speculating about software, instead of telling people who know more than you do that they are wrong.

Dolphin CPU requirements are high, and OSX GL drivers being terrible + your GPU being bad is not helping. End of the story. If you want to suggest improvements, do so in the form of a patch that shows a performance improvement with no reduction in accuracy.

[Anti-Ultimate]

You paid 1500$ for this? You could've bought a gaming pc that would've run most games at 100% for that much money.

Dolphin ONLY uses 2 Cores and you have an processor with an old architecture.

[DarkeoX]

(04-28-2014, 03:44 AM)crashisgod Wrote:

(04-27-2014, 03:12 PM)Jhonn Wrote: Different games have different requirements, so, the GC games you're trying to run are more demanding than the Wii games you played (probably lightweight).

How is The Sims 1 for Gamecube more demanding than The Sims 3 for Wii? Illogical.

(04-27-2014, 03:12 PM)Jhonn Wrote: Your CPU is weak for the GC games you're trying to run (that probably are demanding since they're from EA), and that's the reason you wrongly think GC emulation is more demanding (it doesn't matter if it's a Wii or GC game, some are demanding, some not)...

Yes, because Dolphin isn't a PC game. Newcomers always come here and think that, and we're sick of answering the same question again and again. For short, PC games need powerful GPU, Dolphin need powerful CPU (specifically, models with higher IPC rates, so, avoid AMD CPUs/APUs at any cost).

The Sims 1?? Are you kidding? I have The Sims 3 for PC as well and it runs perfectly, barely effects my CPU and its many many times more demanding with its open world than The Sims 1 with its little box lot of a world.

My CPU is far superior than my GPU. An actual Gamecube has a IBM PowerPC "Gekko", 485MHz (Single Core Processor), a Wii uses a IBM PowerPC "Broadway" CPU (single core, clocked at 729MHz), I am using Two 3.2GHz (I've never before owned a CPU higher) Quad-Core Intel Xeon Processors (8 Processor Cores). I am aware of the differences between games designed for PC vs Console, in general PC games are more demanding on the CPU and GPU because they can be, unlike a console PCs aren't limited to some cheap 485MHz single core for example. The reason I referenced the fact that my GPU can handle Diablo 3, is because my CPU and RAM are barely being effected by the games I run in Dolphin which I pointed out in the initial post. I can track my CPU and RAM use (iStats Menu) but not my GPU so I don't know what the % of use is at but I still don't think that's the reason why its slowing down, it must be the way Dolphin is emulating it, as the speed increased by using the newest developer version on the same settings. If there was a way to run these games directly on my hardware I am certain there would be no lag, limitation is created by emulation software in most cases. Adjusting settings in an emulator can usually fix or at least help it but I've seen no improvement no matter the settings I choose which is strange considering how much I read of the improvement certain settings should give.

(04-27-2014, 03:12 PM)Jhonn Wrote: You need a better CPU (in fact, even a single i3 4130 processor would outperform your two current Xeon, and is much more cheap).

The i3 4130 is 3.4GHz, is 200MHz such a significant difference here? And why should I need 3.4GHz minimum for a game which is designed to run on 485MHz? I wonder if there is something I am not getting, because that sounds ridiculous to me. If Gamecube can run Gamecube games at 485MHz I assume its physically possible for Dolphin to be able to, at least some day.

(04-27-2014, 03:12 PM)Jhonn Wrote: upgrading your computer or using old Dolphin versions.

I just bought this computer, it is a $1529 upgrade from what I had before. I will test it with older versions, but the newer developer version runs faster than the latest stable release so I assume the next latest stable release will work even better, and so on. Which would make me think the older versions would run slower.

(04-27-2014, 03:12 PM)Jhonn Wrote: the latest stable release (4.0.2 at the moment), you will get no support from the forums, you will have to deal with any possible issue alone...

No, the latest stable release for Mac is 4.0. 4.0.1 and 4.0.2 do not have a Mac version. I don't have a choice there. And there isn't much I can do, as my knowledge of computers is primarily with electronics and hardware, not software. I do appreciate your response, despite my perceived tone due to grammatical formatting.

Testing 3.0
Result: Impossible
There is some kind of disconnection between the emulator and the games, even with all controls (Tested both with Keyboard and PS3 Controller) responding in the GCPad setting all the games act as though there is no controller connected.

Testing 3.5
Result: No Improvement + Less Functionality
On The Sims 1 I'm getting between 65% and 75% average with some short fluctuations up and down, about the same as the 4.0-1478

I think I'll stick with 4.0-1478 for now, and hope that 4.0.3 will have a Mac version.

Edit: Just tried 4.0-1487 (todays latest) and it runs even faster than 4.0-1478, 83% on average in The Sims 1 sometimes running at 90% (from 73-85%, so the speed is more stable now). Also The Sims Bustin Out is getting an average of 58% playing at 70-80% sometimes with great fluctuation (from 55% so slightly better but greater speed fluctuation). The JIT Recompiler, the CPU Emulator Engine, was further optimized in this version by Tilka. From what I understand, that could be effecting the speed of emulation. I would like to see what much more optimization might bring for the speeds, perfectly optimized it might eliminate the lag I'm seeing.

Stop comparing oranges and Apples. The way your Sims 3 for PC runs and the way Dolphin will emulate GC in order to run your Sims 1 game correctly are two complete different things.
In order to emulate a game console, you need a hardware 4 to 5 times more powerful than the original hardware.
You cannot make points like "GC CPU was XYZ @1.66 Mhz so it should runs on my ZZZ 3.0 Ghz flawlessly with shiney graphixz !". That is simply not how things works in the field of game console emulation.
Instructions set were different, GPU technology was different.
I advise you to read some of the latest articles on main page, they're quite knowledgeable about the hows & whys things aren't so easy.

[JMC47]

Run Sims 3 from PS3 (or whatever console its spinoffs got released on) on your PC then you can complain.

[mbc07]

Well, I linked some sections of the FAQ for you, but apparently you didn't get it, so I'll quote for you:

Dolphin FAQ Wrote:Why do I need such a powerful computer to emulate an old console?
While it's true the GameCube and Wii hardware is a lot slower than what you need to emulate the console using Dolphin, the hardware found in these consoles is also very different from what you can find in a gaming PC. For example:

• Instead of an Intel or AMD x86 CPU, GameCube and Wii use an IBM PowerPC CPU. Games are programmed for this CPU: when emulating, every basic instruction a game runs needs to be translated to something a PC can execute. Depending on the instruction, this can take from 2x to 100x clock cycles, which explains why you need more than a 486MHz CPU to emulate a GameCube.
• The RAM in these consoles is SRAM, smaller but faster than the SDRAM used in a PC. It is also shared between CPU and GPU, which makes operations like texture uploads (CPU memory to GPU memory) or framebuffer copies (GPU memory to CPU memory) a lot less demanding than they are on a PC.
• The GPU is not using shaders: every graphics effect and every computation done by the game is executed directly by the hardware without an intermediate programming language. This does not match how a PC GPU works at all. Dolphin uses shaders on the PC GPU to translate what the GC GPU can do directly in hardware, causing it to run a lot slower.
• A PC runs an operating system in order to be able to run several programs at the same time. A GameCube or a Wii does not have the same requirement and can directly execute things on the hardware without going through the operating system, making a lot of communication between chips faster.

This list is not exhaustive but should give you a good idea of what exactly makes emulation require a powerful computer.

If you still insists that nothing of what we said make sense, sorry, I'll not waste my time answering you again. You could also try other emulator if Dolphin is the problem (let's see if you can find another GC/Wii emulator that run most of the commercial games at full speed)