Which PC build is better for 1080p/720p performance?

[RustingParagon]

Alright this is my first time and I want to build a small pc to shove inside a retro console casing and keep next to the TV in the living room. I have already played on my laptop and its.. its a work in progress not gonna lie but its been fun. I mainly wanna play Rogue Squadron II/III, Mario Kart, Wind Waker, Smash, games like that. So which specs are best for all that for a pc? Stuff is different with PC than Laptops...

AMD Build:

- CPU: Athlon 3000G
- MRB: MSI A320M-A Pro Max AMD Motherboard
- RAM: Corsair Vengeance LPX 4GB DDR4 2400Mhz Desktop RAM
- ROM: Just a 128GB SSD for now. Probably gonna add a 1 TB HDD later.

Intel Build:

- CPU: i3-10100 or Pentium Gold G7400 (Cant for the life of me figure out which out which one is better)
- MRB: MSI H510M PRO-E Motherboard
- RAM: Same
- ROM: Same

Both builds are more or less the same price where I'm from, and Aliexpress is not an option sadly. I just want to know which build I can get the most stable performance at 1080 or 720p as comparing CPUs on userbenchmark and other websites hasn't been the most helpful.

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

...I have many questions.

Honestly, it might just be better if you just provide a budget, name the country you're looking to purchase from (maybe including a link to your usual retailer of PC parts), and I'll see what I can do.

Alternatively maybe take a look at http://PCPartPicker.com and see if they have a local version for your country (click the country drop-down menu in the top-right of their website).


Anyway, CPU-wise, Dolphin only really cares about having 2 fast CPU threads. That being said, the Athlon 3000G uses a Zen1 architecture which Dolphin was, for whatever reason, one of its worst-case scenarios. Therefore, in terms of just raw CPU performance, the Intel build would be faster.

The bigger problem however is that the Pentium you mentioned is an Alder Lake-based part that uses an LGA1700 socket, and the Intel motherboard you listed uses the LGA1200 socket (which is what the i3-10100 uses).

That being said, honestly, Alder Lake's single-threaded performance, while very fast, is probably actually overkill for Dolphin.

Another issue is that, if you're using integrated graphics (and it looks like you are), then using only a single stick of RAM will substantially hamper your integrated GPU's performance. Yes you're only doing 720p to 1080p but, still... it just seems like such a small thing to cheap out on since 2x4GB of RAM is pretty darned cheap nowadays comparatively and, honestly, unless you wanted to use Linux or an older version of Windows (e.g. Windows 7), using only 4GB of RAM could be touch-and-go.

While I'm here, may I ask if the Pentium G3258 is something you'd be interested in? It goes for like $15 on ebay and, in Dolphin, should be just as if not faster than the Athlon 3000G at stock speeds in terms of just CPU performance. Thing is though, the G3258 has an unlocked multiplier and will easily overclock to at 4+GHz with not that much heat output (it's only a dual core after all!), many hitting 4.2GHz and even 4.5+GHz not being uncommon, while the Athlon 3000G tends to max out at a hard 4.0GHz.

The real issue is that the G3258 needs DDR3 RAM, an LGA1150 motherboard, and its iGPU isn't great for higher resolutions though is fine for 480p (especially with dual-channel RAM paired with Linux). Of course, it being so cheap means that you could get a used discrete GPU as well - even the old HD4670 for like $20 runs circles around it. Also, for these sorts of older hardware, you may need to use Linux in order to get proper driver support (and, if you do go the Linux route, then you'll tend to have an easier time if you stick with AMD or Intel graphics) But even then, the Linux drivers for AMD and especially Intel tend to be superior compared to their Windows drivers.

Speaking of Linux, protip: using the official Nintendo 1st party GameCube USB adapter with Dolphin is much easier on Linux than it is on Windows:

• https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?t...phin#Linux

Another issue is that, unless you specifically went with a more-expensive Z97 motherboard, then compatibility with the G3258 and/or the ability to overclock it can be hit-and-miss unless you can find reports from other people that mention their specific motherboard that they overclocked a G3258 on. Also be wary of 81/87-series motherboards as they may be "compatible" only after a BIOS update which itself can usually only be done if you had a CPU that was compatible without the BIOS update unless the motherboard specifically supports USB flashback or the like (the ability to update the BIOS with nothing but a power supply and a USB drive formatted to FAT32 with an MBR partition table).

[RustingParagon]

...I have many questions.

Honestly, it might just be better if you just provide a budget, name the country you're looking to purchase from (maybe including a link to your usual retailer of PC parts), and I'll see what I can do.

Alternatively maybe take a look at PCPartPicker.com and see if they have a local version for your country (click the country drop-down menu in the top-right of their website).


Anyway, CPU-wise, Dolphin only really cares about having 2 fast CPU threads.  That being said, the Athlon 3000G uses a Zen1 architecture which Dolphin was, for whatever reason, one of its worst-case scenarios.  Therefore, in terms of just raw CPU performance, the Intel build would be faster.

The bigger problem however is that the Pentium you mentioned is an Alder Lake-based part that uses an LGA1700 socket, and the Intel motherboard you listed uses the LGA1200 socket (which is what the i3-10100 uses).

That being said, honestly, Alder Lake's single-threaded performance, while very fast, is probably actually overkill for Dolphin.

Another issue is that, if you're using integrated graphics (and it looks like you are), then using only a single stick of RAM will substantially hamper your integrated GPU's performance.  Yes you're only doing 720p to 1080p but, still... it just seems like such a small thing to cheap out on since 2x4GB of RAM is pretty darned cheap nowadays comparatively and, honestly, unless you wanted to use Linux or an older version of Windows (e.g. Windows 7), using only 4GB of RAM could be touch-and-go.

While I'm here, may I ask if the Pentium G3258 is something you'd be interested in?  It goes for like $15 on ebay and, in Dolphin, should be just as if not faster than the Athlon 3000G at stock speeds in terms of just CPU performance.  Thing is though, the G3258 has an unlocked multiplier and will easily overclock to at 4+GHz with not that much heat output (it's only a dual core after all!), many hitting 4.2GHz and even 4.5+GHz not being uncommon, while the Athlon 3000G tends to max out at a hard 4.0GHz.

The real issue is that the G3258 needs DDR3 RAM, an LGA1150 motherboard, and its iGPU isn't great for higher resolutions though is fine for 480p (especially with dual-channel RAM paired with Linux).  Of course, it being so cheap means that you could get a used discrete GPU as well - even the old HD4670 for like $20 runs circles around it.  Also, for these sorts of older hardware, you may need to use Linux in order to get proper driver support (and, if you do go the Linux route, then you'll tend to have an easier time if you stick with AMD or Intel graphics) But even then, the Linux drivers for AMD and especially Intel tend to be superior compared to their Windows drivers.

Speaking of Linux, protip: using the official Nintendo 1st party GameCube USB adapter with Dolphin is much easier on Linux than it is on Windows:

• https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?t...phin#Linux
  

Another issue is that, unless you specifically went with a more-expensive Z97 motherboard, then compatibility with the G3258 and/or the ability to overclock it can be hit-and-miss unless you can find reports from other people that mention their specific motherboard that they overclocked a G3258 on.  Also be wary of 81/87-series motherboards as they may be "compatible" only after a BIOS update which itself can usually only be done if you had a CPU that was compatible without the BIOS update unless the motherboard specifically supports USB flashback or the like (the ability to update the BIOS with nothing but a power supply and a USB drive formatted to FAT32 with an MBR partition table

Okay uh- well I'm from a backwater country that doesn't even have amazon. I'm from Bangladesh and my budget is about 27K bdt which is like 265 dollars give or take? There are 3 websites/stores I can easily buy stuff from. Its Blisstonics, PC House and Skyland. Finding used stuff is a bloody nightmare here, with actual 11th gen processors costing less than 7th gen, which themselves are about as rare as dinosaur bones... Its true hell here. And yea I was planning on using Linux but damn Its good to know that will have some good benefits to it.

Another issue is that, if you're using integrated graphics (and it looks like you are), then using only a single stick of RAM will substantially hamper your integrated GPU's performance

Oh no I was going to put in two 4GB in dual channel. Sorry that didn't transition over well. And in this day and age, 4GB is just glacial 5 seconds into booting the system up, be it pc or phones.

The bigger problem however is that the Pentium you mentioned is an Alder Lake-based part that uses an LGA1700 socket, and the Intel motherboard you listed uses the LGA1200 socket (which is what the i3-10100 uses).

So the i3 will run on the motherboard but not the Pentium? The Pentium is actually the cheaper one here so I wanted to get that one, what else can it emulate beyond Dolphin if its that powerful? Nvm that, are there good mini or small MRBs for it? I dont mind spending a bit more on the board if it ends up being small. I could end up fitting everything in something more portable.

While I'm here, may I ask if the Pentium G3258 is something you'd be interested in?  It goes for like $15 on ebay and, in Dolphin, should be just as if not faster than the Athlon 3000G at stock speeds in terms of just CPU performance. 

I actually looked it up and uh.. Well I found some sure. They are used and um.. well suspiciously low priced. But available yes. I could try getting them yea but wont overclocking mean I need to install proper cooling?

Also thank you for helping out you are awesome!!

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

Well before I dive into possibly putting together a new PC build, lets deal with some of the other things first.

So the i3 will run on the motherboard but not the Pentium? The Pentium is actually the cheaper one here so I wanted to get that one, what else can it emulate beyond Dolphin if its that powerful?

The problem is that systems more powerful than the Wii have more CPU cores and threads, so the Pentium only being 2core/4thread could pose a problem - the Switch is the closest thing that might work since it has 4 cores but only 3 of which are dedicated to games and subsequently the Vita might work as well since it's basically a slower quad-core compared to the Switch.

Nvm that, are there good mini or small MRBs for it? I dont mind spending a bit more on the board if it ends up being small. I could end up fitting everything in something more portable.

There was another recent user looking for a mini PC and I offered lots of choices (in the end, they actually went with a Steam Deck instead):

• https://forums.dolphin-emu.org/Thread-a-...or-dolphin

I actually looked it up and uh.. Well I found some sure. They are used and um.. well suspiciously low priced.

That's likely due to two factors:

#1 they're old, based on an architecture from 2013 (Haswell aka Intel Core 4th gen)

#2 they're only 2core/2thread

The thing is though, for whatever strange reason, Haswell was weirdly fast in emulation workloads - substantially more-so than nearly all other tasks when compared to Intel Core 3rd gen. This means that, to put it bluntly, that generation has some serious staying power in emulation workloads. And since more and more modern native-PC games won't even launch if you don't have 3 CPU threads, then it's no surprise that a mere 2core/2thread processor is seen as a non-starter (though I kind of wonder how WINE or Proton or the like would impact that issue).

Also, Intel's CPUs from 6th gen to 10th gen were basically identical in terms of performance-per-GHz and tend to only be a little bit faster than 4th gen when only focusing on performance-per-GHz (also keeping in mind that 5th gen was almost a no-show on the desktop), so the age of 4th gen is almost deceptive with regards to its single-threaded performance.

Furthermore, the vast majority of Intel's overclockable CPUs are marked with K but that Pentium has no designation in the model that indicates that it's actually overclockable, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are less-savvy people that have no idea that it has an unlocked multiplier.

I could try getting them yea but wont overclocking mean I need to install proper cooling?

Well the thing is, due to it only being a dual core, the definition of "proper cooling" is quite a bit less than you'd expect. Apparently even overclocking on Intel's dinky stock cooler is possible if you're fine with it being noisy, though I think you're then limited more to around the 4GHz range.

While I personally have a single-tower aftermarket cooler, the thing is really quiet and, honestly, I've probably set the fan curve to be much less aggressive than most people (except when hammering both cores, a slight hum from my monitor is louder)... and also I should have probably replaced the thermal paste 5 years ago, but I was expecting to have my PC hardware revamped years ago and it just... never happened. Nowadays I'm more a fan of graphite thermal pads since preventing a degradation in thermal performance over 5+ years is more important to me nowadays, especially since quiet/slow fans + relatively humid environment = minimal dust build-up and therefore minimal maintenance and cleaning.

[RustingParagon]

The problem is that systems more powerful than the Wii have more CPU cores and threads, so the Pentium only being 2core/4thread could pose a problem - the Switch is the closest thing that might work since it has 4 cores but only 3 of which are dedicated to games and subsequently the Vita might work as well since it's basically a slower quad-core compared to the Switch.

Should I just get the i3 to be safe? Future proofing isn't a thing with these things (I think?) but maybe I could play some pc games up to 2010 even with its iGPU. Not at the finest graphics ofc. All benchmarks and such I looked up keep saying 8 gigs and the GPU is going to make things medium graphics at the maximum. 

There was another recent user looking for a mini PC and I offered lots of choices (in the end, they actually went with a Steam Deck instead)

I'm actually still going through that one and tbh even though the Steam Deck is really something I want, I'm in no place to buy it. Nor can I use it the way I want to, as a gaming hub or console to keep in the living room under the TV. I know it can be used that way, Retro Game Corps made multiple videos on it but still. I would prefer something like a pc instead.

That's likely due to two factors:

Still... 10 bucks for a used processor from 2013? I mean yes I could buy that one alongside one of the CPUs available or before them just to test it out but wouldn't finding a MRB for it be the equivalent to hunting for a fossil in a bog? Or it could not be, because I didn't even expect to find the CPU itself. I would need to check for a bit. 

Alright, I wont worry too much about the sound, and overclocking is on the table. Then.. what build could I possibly get at this point? Something that could, say, fit inside the space of an Xbox series S console? Also yea Im definitely going for Linux, probably Zorin OS.

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

Should I just get the i3 to be safe? Future proofing isn't a thing with these things (I think?) but maybe I could play some pc games up to 2010 even with its iGPU. Not at the finest graphics ofc. All benchmarks and such I looked up keep saying 8 gigs and the GPU is going to make things medium graphics at the maximum. 

I would not rely on the the iGPU on the i3 for emulation of things more demanding than the Wii; for that you'd want to go the AMD Ryzen route.

Still... 10 bucks for a used processor from 2013?

I don't know why you find that hard to believe - non-high end CPUs depreciate in value quite quickly since, lets be honest - if you're buying a used old CPU, you're either upgrading an existing system or, if you're putting together a newer system, then you'll want a higher-end CPU in order for it to help with modern workloads.

In particular, older used systems are quite a common route for budget PC gamers which is where that dual core issue comes in - dual core for native PC gaming is pretty dead now. Then combine that with the "multi-core explosion" seen with mobile devices whereby more "normie" people will think more cores automatically equals better, and a dual core suddenly looks pedestrian.

Also there's probably the branding issue - soon after 4th gen aka Haswell, Intel started using the brand "Pentium Silver" (as well as some Celeron CPUs) for what historically was called "Atom" and it resulted in quite a few people, including tech people on forums and similar, to associate Pentium with "trash" (I ran into this issue myself when trying to explain that my Pentium G3258 at 4.5GHz should have emulation performance similar to an i7-4790K).

wouldn't finding a MRB for it be the equivalent to hunting for a fossil in a bog?

I wouldn't think so - it's compatible with LGA1150 boards which were used with your i7s, i5s, etc, and CPUs like the 4790K were pretty popular. Furthermore, because some more budget H-series motherboards were even able to overclock, and the aforementioned G3258 was actually a really popular budget option, this means that the quantity of compatible entry-level motherboards shouldn't really be an issue.

Really the two main issues are just making sure that it is a board that can overclock the G3258 as well as being a motherboard that can even just boot with it (it's no good to have a board that requires a BIOS update but you need a different CPU just to even apply the update).

Alright, I wont worry too much about the sound, and overclocking is on the table. Then.. what build could I possibly get at this point? Something that could, say, fit inside the space of an Xbox series S console?

Well in terms of used parts, the obvious route is an ITX motherboard. Cases have a lot more preference and subjectivity so, for that, I'll refer you to the previously-mentioned PCPartPicker.com.

And of course, as I mentioned in that one thread, there are pre-assembled SFF PCs as well that are available.

Also yea Im definitely going for Linux, probably Zorin OS.

I personally like Linux Mint and have previously jokingly called it "more similar to traditional Windows than modern versions of Windows are".

Also minor protip about using the official 1st party GameCube USB adapter: after creating the according conf file and pasting the corresponding text into it and saving the flie, all you actually need to do is reboot the PC for it to "just work".

[mimimi]

I'm not sure if Rogue Squadron II/III actually work properly, even with a fast PC. If those 2 games are important to you, you might want to do some research on them. Mario Kart, Wind Waker and Smash should run fine with the discussed cpus, but i'm only 90% sure of it.

I want to give some input on the G3258 specifically. Keep in mind that it only has 2 cores, with no hyperhreading, so only 2 threads. If you are planning on getting a G3258, you should look up the prices for i5-4670K, i5-4690K, i7-4770K and i7-4790K, you might get lucky on one of those. Or, if you don't want or can't overclock, one of those without the K. The K and non K variants are virtually the same performance, if you don't overclock. All of those should fit into the same mainboards as the G3258 and they are all upgrades over the G3258. The extra cpu cores help a bit with Dolphin(which actually maxes out at 3-4 cores i think), if a game can use the dual core setting, so not all games and even then it's not enough to justify spending a lot more money.

The G3258 with only 2 cores would allow you to play some older pc games, while the i5 and i7, would allow you to play more regular pc games up to one level below games like Shadow of the Tomb Raider, if you get a GPU with enough performance. Shadow of the Tomb Raider could maybe run ~30-40 fps with the i5 or i7, if your GPU is fast enough(at least that's what i got with an i5-4670K + GPU). Witcher 3 is an example that would run with a i5 or i7 combined with a proper GPU, where the G3258 would give you some trouble.

The integrated graphics of the G3258, i5 and i7 do not appear to be much different. If i'm reading this correctly, the i7 iGPU is just "up to" 8.7% faster than the i5 iGPU, and the G3258 iGPU and i5 iGPU seem to be the same. So the difference in the iGPU between those would not justify spending more money. Paying more for the i5 or i7 would make more sense, if you also get a proper GPU. If you want to use integrated graphics of the cpu, then, like Nintendo Maniac 64 already said, RAM speed matters. The faster the RAM, the better, and 2 sticks is a requirement. If you use a proper GPU, it's more ok to use slower RAM and spend a little more on other things instead.

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

Keep in mind that it's my impression that, much like the G3258, the xx90 "Haswell refresh" CPUs (e.g. i5-4690/k, i7-4790/k, etc) may require an updated BIOS in order to boot on 80-series LGA1150 motherboards but will always "just work" on 90-series LGA1150 motherboards.

It's also worth mentioning that, if one is considering to spend more money for something better than a G3258, then it might make more sense to instead go for something newer like 2017's 2core/4thread budget PC gaming champion the Pentium G4560 or, if wanting to use integrated graphics, the Pentium G4600 or G4620 since the G4560 has a substantially weaker iGPU:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Grap...chitecture

And to be clear, the G4560, G4600, and G4620 cannot be overclocked, but they have higher stock clocks than the G3258 and also perform a little better in terms of performance-per-GHz, and also go for similarly-cheap prices.

Really the price issue then would be the motherboard since you'd need a 100-series LGA1151 motherboard with an updated BIOS or 200-series motherboard instead which is very likely to be more expensive than an 80-series or 90-series LGA1150 motherboard, and the vast majority of 100-series LGA1151 motherboards used DDR4 which will additionally cost more than the dirt-cheap DDR3 that's available on the used market (though there were some rare 100-series LGA1151 motherboards that actually used DDR3...)



Speaking of which, the iGPU on Haswell Pentiums is substantially cut down compared to their i3/i5/i7 counterparts with something like half of the shader count:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Grap...chitecture

In terms of non-overclockable CPUs, Xeon CPUs can be substantially cheaper than their equivalent i5/i7 - just keep in mind that not all Xeon CPUs come with integrated graphics; heck, it looks like you can even get various 3.4-3.5GHz 4core/8thread 4th gen Haswell Xeon CPUs for like $20 to $30 USD on ebay which is kind of nutty to be honest and, at least for multi-threaded performance, might be the real price-vs-performance deal for a non-overclocked CPU (keeping in mind that the 1220, 1225, and 1226 are "only" 4core/4thread rather than 4core/8thread, and that Dolphin would still be faster on even a measly Pentium G4600) - I wonder if it's because they're now over 8 years old and so tons of workstations that used 4th gen Haswell Xeon CPUs have and are being decommissioned?:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In...22_(22_nm)

Skylake 6th gen Xeon CPUs are also cheap but, beginning with that generation, Intel were jerks with their product segmentation (what else is new...) and you could no longer use a desktop Xeon on a consumer motherboard, requiring the use of something like a C236 chipset motherboard (which admittedly can be had on ebay for relatively cheap but those boards have anemic VRM cooling, possibly under the assumption they'd be paired with low-powered CPUs for things like digital signage):

• https://www.anandtech.com/show/9730/inte...0-v5-xeons

Thing is though, once you start getting to above $50 on a CPU, it starts making more sense to go with lower-end new stuff since the main benefit nowadays of higher end CPUs is having additional cores but, as we've well established, most of those additional cores aren't really useful for Dolphin and you'd need more GPU performance to tackle something higher-end (Ryzen APUs could probably be fine, but even the lower end Ryzen 2200G still goes for around $60 USD on ebay).


With all this CPU stuff being said, if entertaining the idea of higher-end LGA1150 DDR3 CPUs, then do not forget about 5th gen Broadwell which is notable specifically for their stronger integrated graphics (albeit still weaker than a Ryzen 2200G), remembering that the Xeon varients are not overclockable and even the i5 and i7 models do not overclock nearly as well as 4th gen Haswell; also 5th gen Broadwell definitely requires a BIOS update to boot on 80-series motherboards but similarly "just works" on 90-series motherboards:

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadwell_...processors
  
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_In...22_(14_nm)

Oh and uh, funny thing about it being easier to use the 1st party GameCube USB adapter on Linux - it seems that, with the flatpak version of Dolphin, you need to run Dolphin as root in order for it to see the adapter... (it just says "Access Denied (insufficient permissions)")

So you might want to stick with the PPA unless you know how to make the Dolphin flatpak always launch with root permissions.

[mimimi]

Sorry for making this so complicated...

When buying a PC with older or used parts to build yourself, you need to compare sets of mainboard+cpu+ram. Like Nintendo Maniac 64 said several times, there are mainboards that support certain cpus, but only on certain firmware versions. Since most mainboards, especially cheaper and older ones do not come with usb flash support(firmware udating without a cpu installed), you need to be careful of that. And then you need to get RAM that fits into that mainboard, so mostly either DDR3 or DDR4. All other components should be switchable.

Intel cpus since haswell, so the G3258 or the i5-4670K, i5-4690K, i7-4770K and i5-4790K should be fine for Dolphin, preferably an i3, i5 or i7. Cpus with Pentium in the name might be ok, but Celeron and Atom in the name should be avoided, as they have cut down features that can make a day and night difference for Dolphin. As for amd cpus, super avoid everything before zen. Nintendo Maniac 64 said that zen1 is also bad for Dolphin, i don't know myself, but i have no reason to doubt that. So for an amd cpu, you want zen2 or later. With amd cpus, you need to consider that most of them don't have integrated graphics, but it seems you already knew that.

What i mean is, it's possible you might find mainboard+cpu+ram for an i7-6700 for less money than a i5-4670(K), and then you should definitively go for the i7-6700. And some Xeon cpus might be much cheaper than they should be and are really good deals.

Last but not least, you might find a good deal on a complete office PC that's cheaper than what mainboard+cpu+ram cost separately. Pricing on the used market is strange sometimes. With those PCs you need to be careful if they use standard parts though. Sometimes the power supply and mainboad are non standard and only work together or there are other weird things. That's fine for the most part, but might be a problem if you want to upgrade in the future and get a proper GPU.

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

Nintendo Maniac 64 said that zen1 is also bad for Dolphin, i don't know myself, but i have no reason to doubt that

Just to clarify this point, Zen1 for whatever reason, in Dolphin specifically, has slightly worse performance-per-GHz than Intel 4th gen (Haswell). So unless you were going for a Ryzen 2000G or 3000G for its comparatively powerful integrated graphics, it makes little sense to go that route.