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Dolphin, the GameCube and Wii emulator - Forums › Dolphin Emulator Discussion and Support › General Discussion v
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Thoughts on Dolphin from a total N00B.
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Thoughts on Dolphin from a total N00B.
03-02-2017, 11:47 PM
#1
kaibosh
Unregistered
 
I just grabbed Dolphin finally, like a few days ago. I had heard buzz about it over the past few years, but didn't give it much thought because I kinda doubted that perfect emulation of the Wii was going to be possible. Wow, what a time to jump onto the bandwagon. Like, seriously - with a pimped out rig and the latest Dolphin build, I am absolutely dumbfounded at the results. After going through the mess of dumping the handful of games I wanted to play (I have had a softmodded Wii for a long time, but let's face it that was never really fun to deal with), I have jumped into the deep end of the pool and here are some random thoughts about this scene from a fresh fish:

- It is very bold for the developers to have no fear of shedding front end design, config file protocols, wholesale UI ground up refreshes, but... This comes at a cost. When you Google stuff like for a perfect example looking for ways to bind your XBone controller for Super Mario Galaxy, you are met with a deluge of information that is totally outdated and quite useless. And don't take this the wrong way, but because of this %90 of the information on this vast forum is also quite useless now - it simply doesn't apply anymore, or the menus have changed too much to even remotely be compared to the new stuff, or issues have fallen into the fog of the past and just don't matter anymore.

- On the topic of controller configs for specific games, it is absolutely baffling to me that there don't seem to be any current and maintained repositories for this. In fact, even with a forum dedicated to controller stuff there aren't any config files of any kind to be found. This means learning things the hard way, which Dolphin certainly deserves, but there is one hell of a learning curve to specific little things related to controls.

- On a further note, Dolphin itself seems a little weak when it comes to handling multiple controller config files. You can load and save, but that pesky little window showing you what config you have 'up' goes blank all the time, so at any given time you really don't know where things stand. There is a 'persistence' missing to this part of things, so tweaking individual configs for different games feels like tiptoeing through a minefield.

- More controller griping (sorry). The interface for dealing with the wii-mote and nunchuck are simply totally impossible to decipher. Binding things works great, although it took me a while to figure out I could bind multiple buttons to one thing - quite literally a game changer when you need to use the right stick on a controller to do the IR pointing. For Super Mario Galaxy, this is easy. For a game like Twilight Princess, it is almost impossible. In all these forums I have found no explanation as to how to deal with tilt, swing, all that stuff. Old Google result show a 'tilt and roll' interface that has disappeared, one that has obviously transmogrified into the current stuff but how it does so it pretty much beyond understanding. This is one part of the interface that needs work.

- Jumping into this as a noob means having zero knowledge as to the rules concerning the *actual* names of games as far as the code is involved, or where things like controller config files are supposed to go. How can a person go by Google results when they talk about directories three deep that don't exist until you create them manually? High def texture management is fairly painless, but only by trial and error. On that note holy cow has there been some amazing work done to some of these game. Heroic. Again though, an entire sub-forum devoted to textures and not one single sticky post explaining how to use them, where they go, etc.

- I don't want any of this to sound like bitching. A learning curve is expected, but to an outsider jumping in finding information here or out there is pretty much impossible. You have to be an archaeologist, and carefully pick at the dirt until you uncover nuggets of information that you need to really use this killer app properly. When you do, however... The results are beyond stunning. Using DX12 with a 980ti I am running Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 at 3X internal rez, HD textures, 1080p and with prefetching and all that I can state emphatically that it works absolutely beyond perfectly. There are zero stutters. It is eye-popping. I am even more amazed that the controls work as well as they do, even without any control (that I can see) over IR emulation sensitivity you can get pretty good with it fairly quickly.

- The only thing missing from Dolphin is a mature launcher. I know it has some pretty advanced stuff buried just under the surface, but it needs to be more friendly. The emulator itself should be able to act as a front end to a repository of config files. Making config files needs a radical new approach, one where you are shown physical representations of the wii-mote and nunchuck on one side and your controller on the other, where each game has all the controls tagged and labelled. The current interface is overwhelming, to say the least. Once the games are setup and running, to me it feels like the emulator is already perfect. I mean, I'm only playing the handful of mega titles I already had and know inside out, but the upgrade in graphics is pretty amazing on a 60" Bravia. Kudos to everyone involved and it's a shame that something like Dolphin isn't an official product where people get paid for their contributions. I wonder what some of the people working at Nintendo think of the amazing work being done here.
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03-03-2017, 01:57 AM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2017, 01:58 AM by KHg8m3r.)
#2
KHg8m3r Offline
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Regarding your gripes toward the controller setup:
There are several problems with having a controller repository that I can see:
The first problem is that different people like different layouts. For example, my friends like the buttons mapped on a Xbox controller as A=A, B=B, Y=Y, and X=X and so forth. I on the other hand like it laid out DS style, with A=B, B=A, X=Y, Y=X. So that doubles every config I have.
The second problem is that a profile also saves what device it is setup for. So if I save an Xbox profile for player 1 using the first Xbox controller plugged into my computer and then go to load up the same profile for player 2, it loads it up using the first Xbox contoller, and not the second Xbox controller. So I then have to manually change the drop down input to the second controller. So now I would have 4 identical profiles saved, one for each Xbox/player. And then double it so that I have the reverse config, and that's 8.
Thirdly, keyboard layout are even more different, so there's a ton of different ways to lay that out, and a ton of different configs, which leads to an overload of options for people.

As for the controller setup screen being confusing:
Are you using the latest dev builds? They've actually been making progress in making the controller setup be more user friendly. There is still a long way to go, but if you would like to see some changes, why not be the change you want to see? If you can make the controller setup more user friendly and it meets the quality that we expect, then there's a possibility it can be merged Smile

The problem with menu's changing so much is that its hard to keep up with all the changes that go on in the dev builds. And then, people who only want to use the stable builds are left with guides that no longer apply to them. It's a hard balancing act.

As for the launcher, Dolphin currently uses wxWidgets to make the user interface. People have been trying to make a QT interface for a few years now, but interest keeps waning.

Edit: since you're using an Nvidia GPU, you may want to switch over to OpenGL, since its faster than DX12 on Nvidia GPUs, and because DX12 isn't being worked on by anybody currently, so its not seeing feature improvements or fixes for bugs.
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03-03-2017, 03:04 AM (This post was last modified: 03-03-2017, 03:05 AM by Helios.)
#3
Helios Offline
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(03-02-2017, 11:47 PM)kaibosh Wrote: When you Google stuff like for a perfect example looking for ways to bind your XBone controller for Super Mario Galaxy, you are met with a deluge of information that is totally outdated and quite useless. 
So then, trial and error or get a real Wiimote? How are we supposed to solve this for you? Emulated Wiimotes are honestly a crappy solution for a lot of games.

Quote:On the topic of controller configs for specific games, it is absolutely baffling to me that there don't seem to be any current and maintained repositories for this.  In fact, even with a forum dedicated to controller stuff there aren't any config files of any kind to be found.

That's on the users to create. I don't think it would be too out of place for something on the Wiki to maintain this though.

Quote:On a further note, Dolphin itself seems a little weak when it comes to handling multiple controller config files.  You can load and save, but that pesky little window showing you what config you have 'up' goes blank all the time, so at any given time you really don't know where things stand.  There is a 'persistence' missing to this part of things, so tweaking individual configs for different games feels like tiptoeing through a minefield.

Yeah, that's a bit of a weird one. File an issue and see if anybody gets interested in fixing it. https://bugs.dolphin-emu.org

Quote:- More controller griping (sorry).  The interface for dealing with the wii-mote and nunchuck are simply totally impossible to decipher.  Binding things works great, although it took me a while to figure out I could bind multiple buttons to one thing - quite literally a game changer when you need to use the right stick on a controller to do the IR pointing.  For Super Mario Galaxy, this is easy.  For a game like Twilight Princess, it is almost impossible.  In all these forums I have found no explanation as to how to deal with tilt, swing, all that stuff.  Old Google result show a 'tilt and roll' interface that has disappeared, one that has obviously transmogrified into the current stuff but how it does so it pretty much beyond understanding.  This is one part of the interface that needs work.

That's because Emulated Wiimotes are bad. I can't think of any way that you can translate what a Wiimote can do into a bindable interface without UI overload (bad UX) or just not explaining things well (Also bad UX). Use a real Wiimote.


Most of your complaints are about a feature that isn't designed to work well because it really can't. Emulated Wiimotes are a nightmare for users because trying to figure out how to translate motion controls to a controller or KB+M is stupid. Just use a real Wiimote. As for the UI, yeah. There's been effort to rewrite the UI in Qt and solve some very old UX problems, but nobody has cared to finish it. That's kind of the nature of open source.
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03-08-2017, 12:01 PM
#4
kaibosh
Unregistered
 
Just a response to the couple of replies I got. Yeah, I guess I can't expect there to be much better emulation of even the original wii-mote. What we do have works pretty great, I guess what would be really neat would be hotkeys to swap between sub-configs in game so that you could have your cake and eat it too for those odd moments you need the 'other setup'. Good examples are a couple of the rolling levels in SMG and like I mentioned the fishing and a few other things in Twilight Princess. Honestly, one of the main reasons I love Dolphin is that I don't have to use that silly IR pointer, SMG plays *better* with the right stick on a controller doing the same thing - although I do find it odd that they have no sensitivity setting for this that I can see.

I just wanted to post again as well to say how insanely perfect this emulator has become. Jumping into the game this late, I am taking everything for granted. The emulator is seriously mature at this rate, and it is obviously going to take a p1mped out rig to not only emulate very foreign hardware architecture but also do it at multiple times native rez, with AA, with high def textures, etc, etc. Again, without a 980ti card I don't think I would be seeing the flawless gameplay that I almost can't believe.

As for backend, I switched from DX12 to OpenGL, but I don't like the results. I am getting tearing out the yin-yang, which I understand is a v-sync problem but I didn't see that in any way with DX12. I haven't tested Vulcan too much yet, from the general gist on the forums it looks like that will be the future even if it may not have the best overall power - features and flawless emulation are always going to come first though as they should.

I've owned a Wii since launch day and had no idea that a 'Pro Controller' even existed. Huh. Now that I know about it, emulating it is strange. Is is just me or are the A & B. and X & Y buttons swapped from where they should be? It feels like some texture packs even take this into account, am I mistaken or is the Pro Controller button layout pretty much totally broken from every other controller Nintendo has ever made? Maybe I am just confusing it with an Xbox setup, and of course holding a Wii-mote sideways was always kind of... Bleh.

Once again, anyone who devotes time to this scene is a hero. Some of these games are timeless, and reborn again as brand new with the insane work put into texture packs on top of an emulator that feels like it has had millions of dollars poured into it. Of course, those hours were worth that, but people did it out of kindness and devotion rather than profit. I hope people have gained good jobs based on examples of their work with this project. You have to think that even Nintendo must secretly admire Dolphin.

Now all I need is about 24 more Gig of Ram to pre-fetch some of these texture packs... Wink
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03-08-2017, 04:38 PM (This post was last modified: 03-08-2017, 04:39 PM by Helios.)
#5
Helios Offline
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Nvidia control panel > Create a profile for Dolphin.exe > set vsync to "On" or "adaptive" or "fast". Dunno what fast does.

Can't recommend using D3D12 anymore. On nvidia it's not much faster than GL, buggier, and unmaintained. Nobody is fixing bugs for it.
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03-08-2017, 05:38 PM
#6
Kurausukun Offline
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Also you have to be on Windows 10 to use it, so that's another issue.
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03-08-2017, 09:26 PM
#7
JosJuice Offline
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(03-08-2017, 12:01 PM)kaibosh Wrote: I've owned a Wii since launch day and had no idea that a 'Pro Controller' even existed. Huh.

If you mean the Classic Controller Pro, it's basically the exact same thing as a regular Classic Controller.

(03-08-2017, 12:01 PM)kaibosh Wrote: Is is just me or are the A & B. and X & Y buttons swapped from where they should be? It feels like some texture packs even take this into account, am I mistaken or is the Pro Controller button layout pretty much totally broken from every other controller Nintendo has ever made?

The Classic Controller Pro uses the standard Nintendo layout, with A to the right. Some texture packs do swap A/B and X/Y, but that's for people who are using Xbox controllers.
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