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[Link_to_the_past]

(11-04-2013, 11:17 PM)ExtremeDude2 Wrote: Water doesn't conduct electricity

Clear water doesn't conduct electricity but most of the time it has dissolved salts that makes it conductive.

[ExtremeDude2]

(11-04-2013, 11:46 PM)Link_to_the_past Wrote:

(11-04-2013, 11:17 PM)ExtremeDude2 Wrote: Water doesn't conduct electricity

Clear water doesn't conduct electricity but most of the time it has dissolved salts that makes it conductive.

Exactly

[MayImilae]

(11-04-2013, 11:46 PM)Link_to_the_past Wrote:

(11-04-2013, 11:17 PM)ExtremeDude2 Wrote: Water doesn't conduct electricity

Clear water doesn't conduct electricity but most of the time it has dissolved salts that makes it conductive.

[AnyOldName3]

This has always confused me, as even in distilled water, some 'molecules' don't exist as molecules, but instead H+ and OH- ions, which is the whole reason electrolysis works. If this didn't happen, then we couldn't extract hydrogen, but this happening means water is conductive, which goes against what I keep being told.

[ExtremeDude2]

So I hear u liek steam box?

http://www.maximumpc.com/take_look_steam_machine_2013

[NaturalViolence]

Zee530 Wrote:And here i was thinking water and electricity were a bad mixture, still surprised at all that equipment.

So am I actually. The way I have it set up right now is stupid. But I have no choice for the time being. The patio floods regularly from rain, water changes, and moving equipment. The chords and sockets used to get wet regularly and somehow I managed to not blow up anything. I did get shocked a few times though. 120V AC through water is not fun. So I had to get all the surge protectors and extension chords off the floor. Right now I have three of them. One on top of the cat liter box to the left of the aquarium. One on top of the biofilter to the right of the aquarium. And one in the bottom section of the grille just to the right of the small pond. Since the aquarium is on a stand the chords for the aquarium equipment run vertically upward. Which means the chords can easily carry water down into the sockets whenever I handle anything. Which happens a lot. You're supposed to have a drip loop to prevent this from happening but I don't have space because the chords aren't long enough in many cases. And I have nowhere else to put the surge protectors. :/

I'll figure something out the future. I could velcro them to the glass doors but that would be ugly.

Zee530 Wrote:My Mom wants to start a fishpond business sometime this month, her biggest problem at the moment is water source i guess, whoever is giving her consultation on the business says tap water is a no go which is all we have access to at the moment.

Define "fishpond business". Equipment? Fish? Installation?

Tap water is usually ok so long as you treat is correctly with the appropriate chemicals first. It depends on the quality of the tap water. How big do you intend the pond to be? What exactly did the consultant say was wrong with the tap water?

Worst comes to worst you can always get an RO/DI (reverse osmosis/deionization) unit and fill it very slowly. That would run you around $150 US here in the states. Probably a lot more over there.

Just test the water first. Chlorine and chloramine will most likely be present. In most cases all you have to do is dump a bunch of sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate (a serious contender for the longest name of a chemical that I know) in there to get rid of those and then the water is safe. It's cheap, fast acting (with enough flow chlorine is 100% gone in minutes), widely available, extremely effective, and a few ml will treat hundreds of gallons. Virtually every company that makes pond equipment makes water treatment/conditioner products. And every one of them sells this chemical under some different brand name. It's best to assume that any tap water has elevated levels of these.

Another thing you need to check for if you suspect it to be present is elevated levels of heavy metals. Your tap water would have to be very very poor quality for this to be the case. Which is why in developed countries it usually only ever happens with well water, not tap water. Copper, lead, mercury, zinc, iron and iron oxide, manganese, aluminum, etc. Pretty much any common metal can be dangerous to aquatic life if dissolved into the water at a high enough concentration. Some of these can be chemically removed via binding agents and such. Some cannot and must be filtered out using reverse osmosis, distillation, or other complex and expensive processes. Unless you suspect your water to be of very poor quality I probably would not bother testing for any of this stuff. A lot of this stuff would be toxic to humans too if ingested at similar levels. I know copper sure is. A lot of these can be tested for very cheaply.

Then there are sulfates, silicates, potassium, iodine, phosphates, ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate, dissolved organic compounds, etc. The chances of these being at elevated levels in any decent quality water are so low I probably would never bother testing for these even in well water.

Finally Ph, Gh, and Kh. Which you should probably test for. It's dirt cheap to test these. Pretty much any Ph in the 6.5-8.5 range is safe for most fish. Gh (mostly calcium and magnesium) and Kh (carbonates and bicarbonates) are less important but may be worth knowing depending on what you're trying to raise. Most aquatic species don't care about either though as long as they're not either absurdly low (a.k.a. 0) or absurdly high (off the charts).

And of course there are probably other things that I've missed. There are so many chemicals on this planet that can be dangerous to life in high enough concentrations that there is no way I could list them all here. But most of them are so rare that they're simply not worth mentioning. While this may seem complex I must stress that for the vast majority of the worlds tap water chlorine is the only thing that you need to treat for to make it safe for a pond.

Does your tap water look dirty? Does it smell funny? Does it taste funny? These are good indicators of very poor quality water that don't require a test kit. Of course even if it looks, smells, and tastes clean still doesn't mean that it's suitable for aquatic life. But it's a good indicator of whether you should even bother testing it.

All of this is based on the assumption that your tap water is properly treated however. Which in 3rd world countries like Nigeria it often isn't. You could have fungul and bacterial diseases present due to insufficient chlorination. Treating for those is easy though. Distillation (boil the water), UVC (germicidal UV light), or fucktons of ammonia and chlorine (which of course you will then have to remove). These would likely make you sick if you drank the water so that's an easy way to test for that. You could have dirt and debris from underwater sources, surface sources, or sewage. This will be broken down into toxic chemicals by bacteria over time. You should be able to see this type of contaminant. You could have heavy metals from toxins in the poor quality pipes or in an underground mineral deposit (usually coal). Those could discolor your water. But if they don't then testing would be required to detect them. Then there are gases like methane that can be toxic but unless your water is bubbling and setting you on fire I wouldn't worry too much about that. If your water isn't dirty you probably don't have elevated levels of any organic compounds or anything generally associated with the nitrogen or phosphorous cycles. Elevated levels of salts in your water you should be able to taste. That's about all I can think of off the top of my head. Then again I've never lived in a 3rd world country so what do I know.

Here in Florida we're blessed with damn near perfect tap water for ponds. High Ph (8.2-8.5), low to medium Kh (3-4 degrees), medium to high GH (7 degrees), and no heavy metals or other toxins. And of course the weather. 75-85F (25-29 C) all year round. Perfect for raising the subtropic fish typically found in ornamental ponds.

Garteal Wrote:That's pretty impressive NaturalViolence. I have a pond myself, so I know how much work it is.
So how big is that pond and where's that Manta you kept bragging about?

Your jokes are terrible. You will make an excellent dad someday.

I have a 125 gallon, 90 gallon, and two 35 gallons. And a 25 gallon aquarium with a 10 gallon sump (filled about 2/3 of the way).

And yeah they are a lot of work. Especially when you have lots of trees that shed leaves like crazy and "soil" that is really just solid stone from 4 inches down. And now that we're in the dry season I have to top them off with the hose every day because of the heat. Also something ate my goldfish lately and has been attacking my crayfish. The turtle pond will turn into a sludge pool in mere months without constant maintenance. He's a little poop machine.

AnyOldName3 Wrote:This has always confused me, as even in distilled water, some 'molecules' don't exist as molecules, but instead H+ and OH- ions, which is the whole reason electrolysis works. If this didn't happen, then we couldn't extract hydrogen, but this happening means water is conductive, which goes against what I keep being told.

Water does not ionize into H+ and OH- to a sufficient degree to transport charges well. Not on its own.

ExtremeDude2 Wrote:So I hear u liek steam box?

[AnyOldName3]

(11-05-2013, 11:56 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote:

AnyOldName3 Wrote:This has always confused me, as even in distilled water, some 'molecules' don't exist as molecules, but instead H+ and OH- ions, which is the whole reason electrolysis works. If this didn't happen, then we couldn't extract hydrogen, but this happening means water is conductive, which goes against what I keep being told.

Water does not ionize into H+ and OH- to a sufficient degree to transport charges well. Not on its own.

Ah, the classic "Technically it can, but not well enough to be of use".

[Garteal]

(11-05-2013, 11:56 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: Your jokes are terrible. You will make an excellent dad someday.

I have a 125 gallon, 90 gallon, and two 35 gallons. And a 25 gallon aquarium with a 10 gallon sump (filled about 2/3 of the way).

And yeah they are a lot of work. Especially when you have lots of trees that shed leaves like crazy and "soil" that is really just solid stone from 4 inches down. And now that we're in the dry season I have to top them off with the hose every day because of the heat. Also something ate my goldfish lately and has been attacking my crayfish. The turtle pond will turn into a sludge pool in mere months without constant maintenance. He's a little poop machine.

I thought you were serious about it.

Wow... isn't that a bit... too much? You're maintaining them all on your own right?

Spoiler: (Show Spoiler)

Those W.O.Ts.
Looks like those ponds (amongst others) kept you away from your desk.

(11-05-2013, 10:16 AM)ExtremeDude2 Wrote: So I hear u liek steam box?

http://www.maximumpc.com/take_look_steam_machine_2013

For the price tag it's likely going to have it's a no go. Still nice to see them try something and the controller looks interesting.

[Link_to_the_past]

(11-05-2013, 08:48 AM)AnyOldName3 Wrote: This has always confused me, as even in distilled water, some 'molecules' don't exist as molecules, but instead H+ and OH- ions, which is the whole reason electrolysis works. If this didn't happen, then we couldn't extract hydrogen, but this happening means water is conductive, which goes against what I keep being told.

Regarding electrolysis at home, it works because we use tap water which contains salts and not distilled water. Plus if i remember correctly when i tried it once i had to put some table salt in it to help the process.

[ExtremeDude2]

Yer, I used some water with epsom salt added and made me some Hydrogen and Oxygen