Question about i7 8 threads?

[xRyudo]

(03-24-2010, 02:09 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote:

Quote:You can't compare the temperatures of an Athlon X2 with an i7. The i7 is notorious for getting hot.

Also keep in mind that an I7 can tolerate much higher temperatures. Core2duo wolfdale can get up to 65 celcius while still being "safe" according to intel, meaning almost no loss of lifespan, and can function at up to 85 celcius with a loss of lifespan. Of course these numbers vary slightly from one individual cpu to another but those are the temps that intel provided which must therefore represent a minimum. For the I7 both of those numbers are about 20 degrees higher, 85 for "safe", and 100 for "functional". I can't say for sure but from what I understand I think it has something to do with the transistors being placed further apart from each other. I refused to believe this at first since it went against my past experiences (I had never in my wildest dreams thought a cpu could function at a temperature that high, I thought that it was impossible) but then my friend got a 920 and I ran some tests on it and the numbers are accurate. In fact in a poorly ventilated case the 920 did actually get up to about 83 celcius at full load on stock cooling and stock settings, and it was fine. Also keep in mind that raising the voltage will lower the maximum tolerable temperature. To test intels claims I overclocked it and got it up to 97 at full load, still was prime 95 stable (of course I reverted this after the test for obvious reasons, don't want to shorten the lifespan from heat damage). For those of you with the patience or interest to read this, thanks.

Sounds about right. When I reach 100C it starts to downclock itself to reduce temperatures. (And yes I did reach those temperatures when I had the thermal paste applied wrong). And even right now, 3.8 GHz and HT on in Prime95 = 100+ C easily. That's why I need better cooling lol.

[Ocean]

Well, it sounds pretty dangerous to run a processor at 100c imo, even an i7. It probably wont break right away, but as you know, heat degrades the efficiency of the transistors and it might just stop working faster than it would with adequate cooling.

With arctic silver paste and noctua cooler (just air) I didn't yet go past 53c playing any games on dolphin. It will go to 56 if playing crysis only. Or 70 if running Prime95 test for hours.

[xRyudo]

Yeah I'm looking for a proper air cooler myself. Unfortunately the ones that are like yours don't fit in my case, so I might consider changing my entire case. Damn shame though, since it's a really nice case.
Arctic Silver paste is something I still need to get as well. Right now I have some cheap substance.

Either way, the moment I noticed Prime95 caused it to go to 100 (And Dolphin causing it to go 80+ for that matter) I decided to turn off HT in the mean time, which helped A LOT for temperatures. So it's going to remain that way until I get decent cooling.

[CacoFFF]

(03-24-2010, 11:28 AM)xRyudo Wrote:

Quote:I think disabling hyperthreading on a i7 helps when you have 'Lock threads to cores' enabled in Dolphin.

Locking threads makes it slower. It binds it to 1 core. Useless function for an i7 and bad for playing games.

[/quote]

Strange, enabling/disabling it on my rig doesn't make a difference.
I have a dual core and uses 100% of both, so your argument is invalid.

EDIT: Might slow things down if you have a bloated OS, did you close unneeded processes before making the tests?

[NaturalViolence]

Quote:Well, it sounds pretty dangerous to run a processor at 100c imo, even an i7. It probably wont break right away, but as you know, heat degrades the efficiency of the transistors and it might just stop working faster than it would with adequate cooling.

With arctic silver paste and noctua cooler (just air) I didn't yet go past 53c playing any games on dolphin. It will go to 56 if playing crysis only. Or 70 if running Prime95 test for hours.

Did you read my post at all?

Quote:Strange, enabling/disabling it on my rig doesn't make a difference.
I have a dual core and uses 100% of both, so your argument is invalid.

That's because your cpu does not support HT. Only an I7 will have this problem.

[Ocean]

(03-25-2010, 12:52 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote:

Quote:Well, it sounds pretty dangerous to run a processor at 100c imo, even an i7. It probably wont break right away, but as you know, heat degrades the efficiency of the transistors and it might just stop working faster than it would with adequate cooling.

With arctic silver paste and noctua cooler (just air) I didn't yet go past 53c playing any games on dolphin. It will go to 56 if playing crysis only. Or 70 if running Prime95 test for hours.

Did you read my post at all?

If you read topic, I commented on xRyudo, who said he has actually hit those temperatures due to incorrectly applied TP. One could say it's not a good idea to run at these temps for prolonged amounts of time.

Some graphics cards are rated to run functional at 115c, that does not mean the card will be alive for very long if you run it at this temperature for more than a few days/weeks due to very heavy electromigration.

Quote:Electromigration is exacerbated by high current densities and the Joule heating of the conductor (see electrical resistance), and can lead to eventual failure of electrical components. Localized increase of current density is known as current crowding.

The thermal specification of a CPU chip is the point of operation at which, if exceeded, it will automatically start throttling itself, i.e. lowering intake voltage, disabling hyperthreading, downclocking all cores to minimum, and should the temperature still not drop, it will automatically dump physical memory & page file contents onto the drive, set uncore @ 0.00 and disable currency flow to itself, effectively shutting itself down until it's cooled down.

Thermal specification does not in any way imply that the CPU is usable at that temperature. I hope you understand if your cpu constantly runs at past 80c (let alone in the 90-100's) there is a serious fan failure, misapplication of thermal paste or other issue. Normal stress temperatures in average usage and gaming for properly cooled i7 processors not overclocked, is about 30-40c idle and 45-70c under load.

[NaturalViolence]

Quote:Thermal specification does not in any way imply that the CPU is usable at that temperature. I hope you understand if your cpu constantly runs at past 80c (let alone in the 90-100's) there is a serious fan failure, misapplication of thermal paste or other issue. Normal stress temperatures in average usage and gaming for properly cooled i7 processors not overclocked, is about 30-40c idle and 45-70c under load.

Go on newegg and read through the reviews of all the I7 cpus. Most people get about 80c at full load on stock settings and stock cooling, that's because those the temps that they are designed to run at, intel even says so.

So based on what you said:

1. Intel doesn't know shit about their own cpus and is giving us false info by telling us it is safe to run them at up to 85 celcius and providing stock coolers that run them that high

2. The majority of I7 cpus have fan failures upon arrival

3. Clearly even though I have done it I am wrong, because I have run cpus at 80c for 6 years going on 7 now no problem, it all depends on the cpu and the voltage

4. We have been unable to make transistors that run at higher temperatures while still maintaining a very long lifespan, this one is the easiest to prove wrong

[CacoFFF]

(03-26-2010, 12:23 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote:

Quote:Thermal specification does not in any way imply that the CPU is usable at that temperature. I hope you understand if your cpu constantly runs at past 80c (let alone in the 90-100's) there is a serious fan failure, misapplication of thermal paste or other issue. Normal stress temperatures in average usage and gaming for properly cooled i7 processors not overclocked, is about 30-40c idle and 45-70c under load.

Go on newegg and read through the reviews of all the I7 cpus. Most people get about 80c at full load on stock settings and stock cooling, that's because those the temps that they are designed to run at, intel even says so.

So based on what you said:

1. Intel doesn't know shit about their own cpus and is giving us false info by telling us it is safe to run them at up to 85 celcius and providing stock coolers that run them that high

2. The majority of I7 cpus have fan failures upon arrival

3. Clearly even though I have done it I am wrong, because I have run cpus at 80c for 6 years going on 7 now no problem, it all depends on the cpu and the voltage

4. We have been unable to make transistors that run at higher temperatures while still maintaining a very long lifespan, this one is the easiest to prove wrong

1. True, shitty stock coolers are cheaper, if they can keep the cpu till warraty expires, then it will do.
Some AMD Phenom X4 come way overvolted out of the box, and so what? It's the same here.

2. Those stock coolers are simply too weak, barely enought for the given task.

3. Lower voltages make the CPU use less power, did you actually lower the VCore? If that's so, then I just can't imagine how hot it will get on stock voltages, considering yours reach 80c.

---

Quote:

Quote:Strange, enabling/disabling it on my rig doesn't make a difference.
I have a dual core and uses 100% of both, so your argument is invalid.

That's because your cpu does not support HT. Only an I7 will have this problem.

That's why I mentioned about disabling HT in that post.

[NaturalViolence]

Quote:That's why I mentioned about disabling HT in that post.

But your sig says you have an E2180. How can you disable HT on a cpu that doesn't support it to begin with? Unless you have a different system than the one in your sig, if so then you understand why I'm confused.

Quote:1. True, shitty stock coolers are cheaper, if they can keep the cpu till warraty expires, then it will do.
Some AMD Phenom X4 come way overvolted out of the box, and so what? It's the same here.

2. Those stock coolers are simply too weak, barely enought for the given task.

3. Lower voltages make the CPU use less power, did you actually lower the VCore? If that's so, then I just can't imagine how hot it will get on stock voltages, considering yours reach 80c

It was actually a bet I did with my crazy friend who felt like every cpu needed to be running at 45 celcius full load on his liquid cooling system to have a decent lifespan, he refuses to OC to this day because of his irrational fear. So basically I was about to pick up a pentium 4 Prescott (this was 5-6 years ago) and the bet was that he would pay for it if I could run it at 80c full load with only a block of aluminum to cool it for 4 years. I was allowed to lower the voltage and turn off HT in order to get the temps low enough, both of which I did. Anyways it ran at 80C despite this and after 4 years I won the bet.

I also don't understand your argument about stock coolers being to shitty. That is irrelevant. Just think, when have you ever in your entire life met someone using a brand name computer (or one they built themselves) with stock cooling and stock settings whose cpu has failed in less than 8 years? Your argument is that stock coolers are not sufficient for cpus right out of the box, which is simply not true. If this were true and intel had provided an insufficient stock cooler they will be running into some serious problems 2-3 years from now when the 90% of the population using intel cpus have systems that are failing. Intel would not allow this to happen, the stock cooler is sufficient to keep it below 85 which is a sufficient temp range for an I7 to achieve a 6+ year lifespan.

[CacoFFF]

^Stock coolers work OK on low and mid-end cpu's, my worries are on those 3+ghz variants, which most of them still come with stock cooling out of the box. Those can be quite a problem with high ambient temperatures and slight amounts of dust.

Some would rather not make the effort of cleaning the heatsink every few months and worrying about temperatures by getting the cpu alone and a decent, not expensive cooling system and let it run.

On a final note, if someone has managed to get a i7 running at 100+c, that tells me that the motherboards safety-reboot is either not working or set to a ridiculous parameter... to think a shitty Celeron 330 (not OC'd) of mine auto reboots everytime it reaches 60c.

(03-24-2010, 08:04 AM)CacoFFF Wrote: I had no idea i7's HT made temperature skyrocket, even when only using dual-tri core apps like Dolphin.
I think disabling hyperthreading on a i7 helps when you have 'Lock threads to cores' enabled in Dolphin.

Makes me think now, disabling hyperthreading, enabling thread lock, wouldn't that keep the entire cpu even at less temperatures? I'm guessing that 2 fully operating cores heat less than 4 partial ones.

Anyone willing to test and post?

This was the mentioned post, I still ask if binding Dolphin to only 2 operating cores would reduce temperatures (HT disabled) withoud losing performance.