Qualcomm drivers

[Haze89]

Hello,

Since it seems driver support is important with this emulator, do you think it's possible to manually update the drivers in a current snapdragon 835 to run better for emulation? I've seen on YouTube of users using a pixel 2 at 100% that seem to do very well with dolphin on Android for the games that do run on the emulator. I also read a few places how pixel 2 has been aggressively getting their drivers updated, I was thinking that's due to treble. Basically, I am wondering if there is a way to manually update the drivers for the Qualcomm chip without waiting for a update or waiting on the vendor to do it if they even will do it

[JonnyH]

This is likely to be "maybe possible, but a lot of work" - the drivers on android don't really have a 'stable' interface between the gralloc/kernel/GPU userspace, so all likely need to be updated at the same time to exactly the same versions.

This is getting into the area of creating a whole custom ROM rather than just a "driver update package" (though was work on trying to make that possible, I don't know how complete that is, or even if it's still a target for android vendors), but that would require the original ROM to support that method, it's not something that can just be wedged in after the fact. And then you'll need a new release of the drivers compatible with the same method.

[Nintonito]

(05-02-2018, 02:43 AM)JonnyH Wrote: This is likely to be "maybe possible, but a lot of work" - the drivers on android don't really have a 'stable' interface between the gralloc/kernel/GPU userspace, so all likely need to be updated at the same time to exactly the same versions.

This is getting into the area of creating a whole custom ROM rather than just a "driver update package" (though was work on trying to make that possible, I don't know how complete that is, or even if it's still a target for android vendors), but that would require the original ROM to support that method, it's not something that can just be wedged in after the fact. And then you'll need a new release of the drivers compatible with the same method.

Treble on android P will be boot.ing agnostic, meaning that GPU drivers likely won’t tie into kernel modifications anymore. Google has said before updating GPU drivers is a feature they want to add

[Helios]

Until Google breaks ABI on the HAL

[JonnyH]

(05-02-2018, 04:43 AM)Nintonito Wrote: Treble on android P will be boot.ing agnostic,  meaning that GPU drivers likely won’t tie into kernel modifications anymore.   Google has said before updating GPU drivers is a feature they want to add

Treble has no effect on the GPU driver's Usermode->Kernel interface.

It's not the magic bullet for GPU drivers you seem to think it is.

[Nintonito]

(05-02-2018, 06:01 AM)JonnyH Wrote: Treble has no effect on the GPU driver's Usermode->Kernel interface.

It's not the magic bullet for GPU drivers you seem to think it is.

Ah, you work for Imagination do you not? I guess you would have some insider knowledge on how that interface works. I guess it’s fruitless to rely on treble. Still, Dave Burke did say it was their intention to make that happen. Maybe one day. You would know better than a mere observer.

[JonnyH]

(05-02-2018, 11:57 AM)Nintonito Wrote: Ah, you work for Imagination do you not?  I guess you would have some insider knowledge on how that interface works.  I guess it’s fruitless to rely on treble.  Still, Dave Burke did say it was their intention to make that happen.  Maybe one day.  You would know better than a mere observer.

Not anymore, but only left a few months ago so probably not too out of date.

It's more that "treble" and "updateable GPU drivers" are separate, barely related things. There's no real hard requirement on one from the other. At least powervr's drivers have been "updateable" in system for some time, just no customers put the effort in to out together the infrastructure to make it work. But that was something of an implementation detail, and depends on design decisions by the vendors driver team, not Google as such.

I believe Google are tweaking some parts of Android to make this a lower bar, and *strongly* recommend driver designs allowing that, but it's still no guarantee.

[Sievn]

why can't they be like in pc install driver then viola...

[Haze89]

(05-02-2018, 03:38 PM)Sievn Wrote: why can't they be like in pc install driver then viola...

I agree that would make things expedite much quicker for app developers, it would also decrease the need to do upgrades as quickly as before. At least from what I hear if you have a pixel 2 you are golden for a while, I would assume the same can be said on treble out of box. However, from what a user said here, updating the gpu drivers may not have that much of an effect as the device getting it's drivers manually updated from the vendor like the pixel has been. Well hopefully it will get there because the vendor is being axed from the equation in treble.

[JonnyH]

(05-02-2018, 03:38 PM)Sievn Wrote: why can't they be like in pc install driver then viola...

One of the big things is carrier testing - they have expensive (months long) testing cycles /required/ to be run on any phone device - the goal is it can't just crash instead of calling the emergency services or something.

Which is why all the "update-able graphics drivers" /only/ update the drivers for apps (and then possible opt-in for specific apps) - all the base system will still use the old, "tested" version. Which is why it's a little more complex for compatibility - you effectively end up with 2 (or more) versions of the userspace running at the same time on the same system. It also naturally means that updates that requires kernel modifications simply cannot use this method (though as *most* of the complexity of the drivers are in userspace, most bug fixes are there, or at least you might be able to do a userspace workaround to avoid hitting a kernel-level issue).