New SSAA Options

[Aleron Ives]

PR 2986 changed the way Dolphin handles SSAA, and I'm curious as to how the new options compare to the old ones. Under OGL, I used to have 2/4/8x MSAA and 4x SSAA options, but now the Anti-Aliasing pulldown only has 2/4/8x MSAA, and enabling one of them causes an SSAA checkbox to illuminate. Does checking the box switch from MSAA to SSAA, meaning it's now possible to do 2/4/8x SSAA and not just 4x SSAA, or does checking the box use something like nVidia's hybrid AA method, where you get say 4x SSAA combined with 8x MSAA for 32x HSAA? The text description of the new checkbox wasn't entirely clear, so I'm a bit confused as to why you have to select an MSAA option to enable SSAA, when the two are different.

[Helios]

SSAA switches the MSAA options to SSAA.

I'm thinking of a better way to convey this to the user.

[Aleron Ives]

Thanks! Out of curiosity, is the 2x option 2x1 or 1x2 SSAA? (I suppose it could be nice to have both options, if it's possible under both backends.)

I think the clearest way to handle the UI would be to first have a checkbox to enable Anti-Aliasing (rather than having the pulldown menu with an "Off" option, as it is now), and then have radio buttons for MSAA and SSAA with descriptions for what each one does that illuminate if you check the AA box. You would then have a pulldown showing the supported AA levels, depending upon whether you selected MSAA or SSAA (so the pulldown would only have 2x, 4x, 8x, etc, and no other descriptor anymore). MSAA and SSAA are separate, so I think it would make more sense to treat them that way in the UI.

[Shonumi]

Is 4xSSAA the only kind of SSAA Dolphin uses now? Or can it do 4x, 9x, and 16xSSAA based on what level of MSAA was chosen? That is to say, does something like this happen -> 2xMSAA + checkbox ticked = 4xSSAA, 4xMSAA + checkbox ticked = 9xSSAA, and so on?

If not, the checkbox seems pointless when 4xSSAA can be the last option in the combobox instead. If it can do 4x, 9x, or 16xSSAA, it still seems better to have them as distinct options in the combobox rather than using a checkbox, otherwise it isn't clear to users how to achieve something like 9xSSAA (even if the GPU requirements are ridiculous for that option ) SSAA scaling naming conventions do not match up with MSAA naming conventions (4x, 9x, 16x vs. 2x, 4x, 8x) so there's even more confusion if you don't make them separate. Better to always be explicit than to potentially leave someone scratching their head.

[Helios]

Is 4xSSAA the only kind of SSAA Dolphin uses now? Or can it do 4x, 9x, and 16xSSAA based on what level of MSAA was chosen? That is to say, does something like this happen -> 2xMSAA + checkbox ticked = 4xSSAA, 4xMSAA + checkbox ticked = 9xSSAA, and so on?

If not, the checkbox seems pointless when 4xSSAA can be the last option in the combobox instead. If it can do 4x, 9x, or 16xSSAA, it still seems better to have them as distinct options in the combobox rather than using a checkbox, otherwise it isn't clear to users how to achieve something like 9xSSAA (even if the GPU requirements are ridiculous for that option ) SSAA scaling naming conventions do not match up with MSAA naming conventions (4x, 9x, 16x vs. 2x, 4x, 8x) so there's even more confusion if you don't make them separate. Better to always be explicit than to potentially leave someone scratching their head.

If I understand degasus' and Hdkr's implementation, when you check SSAA, you can basically ignore "MSAA" and just mentally replace it with SSAA. Also, that last 4x SSAA option in the dropdown was removed when SSAA was initially implemented.

[Aleron Ives]

If it's possible to put them all back into the pulldown again, I agree it would be simplest to just have 2/4/8x MSAA and then 2x1/1x2/4/9/16x SSAA options all in one list without any checkboxes or radio buttons.

[Shonumi]

If I understand degasus' and Hdkr's implementation, when you check SSAA, you can basically ignore "MSAA" and just mentally replace it with SSAA.

Yeah, if that's the case, I really can't say a checkbox is going to cut it. Again, especially since MSAA and SSAA scaling naming conventions are not interchangeable, technically speaking.

Also, that last 4x SSAA option in the dropdown was removed when SSAA was initially implemented.

It's always been there for me (until recently, obviously). Are you talking specifically about D3D's SSAA option or something? 4xSSAA has been an option in OGL since SSAA was implemented for that backend.

[Helios]

If I understand degasus' and Hdkr's implementation, when you check SSAA, you can basically ignore "MSAA" and just mentally replace it with SSAA.

Yeah, if that's the case, I really can't say a checkbox is going to cut it. Again, especially since MSAA and SSAA scaling naming conventions are not interchangeable, technically speaking.

The checkbox can't be removed. We cannot control the AA options for D3D other than "Either SSAA is on or off", this is why it's there (This is also why D3D's AA options are *weird*). However, OGL's AA options can definitely be improved. I'm working on changing the dropdown to SSAA if the SSAA box is checked.

[Shonumi]

Why not just change the available dropdown options depending on the currently selected backend? As in...

OGL displays -> 2x/4x/8x MSAA, 4x/9x/16x SSAA
D3D displays -> 2x/4x/8x MSAA, SSAA

Toggling between OGL and D3D would change what options the dropdown contains. And yes, as a programmer, I know that's not straightforward, and it's kinda a pain to implement, but good UIs don't come cheaply

[Helios]

Why not just change the available dropdown options depending on the currently selected backend? As in...

OGL displays -> 2x/4x/8x MSAA, 4x/9x/16x SSAA
D3D displays -> 2x/4x/8x MSAA, SSAA

Toggling between OGL and D3D would change what options the dropdown contains. And yes, as a programmer, I know that's not straightforward, and it's kinda a pain to implement, but good UIs don't come cheaply

I remember something like that being initially recommended. I thiiink it was turned down because few devs wanted obvious UI differences between the two backends.

Don't quote me on this.