New Config R9 5900hx

[LeBoulet]

Hi,

I aim to buy a mini-pc with an R9 5900HX equipped with 32GB of ram at 3200mhz and use it exclusively as an emulation machine with batocera and the dolphin emulator, in order to play games in 4k 60fps on a 55" screen.

Do you think the chipset graphics will be enough to play in 4k 60fps on a 55" screen?

Currently, I play gamecube games on my I9 9900KF with an EVGA 2080 xc ultra and I have absolutely no problem with 4K 60fps on a 32-inch screen. (congratulations to the team for the software and translations, especially French)

Kind regards.

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

I can't help but notice that your post itself typo'd it as 9500hx rather than the 5900hx used in the title...

Regardless, 4k is questionable, but 3x internal resolution aka ~1920x1440 should be no problem (using Vulkan could help too, but OpenGL is generally fine on Linux) assuming that it's dual-channel memory as even the Ryzen 2400G if I recall can do that even in Rogue Leader with hybrid ubershaders, albeit with some minor CPU-bottlenecking due to being Zen1 (I just remember it being a Zen1 or Zen+ desktop APU that managed to do it, and those tended to max out at something like DDR4-3200 as well).

I know that my old HD5870 (with a 5850 BIOS) can handle 3x IR + 4xSSAA (so effectively rendering at ~3840x2880p) at least at ~45fps (I was CPU-bottlenecked) in 3-player splitscreen on F-Zero GX in OpenGL on Linux Mint 18.x, and that's a GPU that should almost certainly be weaker. The problem is that higher resolutions rely heavily on memory bandwidth, and memory bandwidth is the one place where integrated graphics can be lacking compared to even 15-year old higher-end discrete GPUs.

This is also why dual-channel RAM of a not-slow speed will be very important for your use-case - single channel will cut your memory bandwidth in half.


For reference, the CPU portion should be generally fine since even its base clock of the 5900HX is 3.3GHz and, since it's an 8core CPU and Dolphin doesn't really use more than 2 or 3 threads (maybe 4 if you use LLE DSP), the CPU should be able to maintain clocks moderately higher than 3.3GHz without issue - especially since it's an HX model with a 45w TDP. Also it being Zen3 means you're not going to need anywhere near as much clockspeed as something like the previously-mentioned Zen1/Zen+ desktop APU due to substantial IPC improvements (I mean, the 3400G was 65w 4c/8t 12nm Zen+ that maxed out at 4.2GHz and you're looking at 45w 8c/16t 7nm Zen3 that maxes out at 4.6GHz, so I'd honestly be surprised if the CPU wasn't more than enough - and this is factoring in that APUs always had reduced L3 cache vs their non-APU counterparts).



EDIT: That being said, I am in possession of a Ryzen 4800U with LPDDR4-4266 memory which will be weaker in every regard except in memory bandwidth. On Linux Mint 20.3 XFCE with Dolphin set to Vulkan and all other settings set to their defaults, I tested F-Zero GX's infamous Sand Ocean track from the Ruby cup in practice mode set to have all 29 racers active and, even with dual core manually enabled for that specific game, there was a definite GPU bottleneck that was very noticeable when you pause at the starting line before the countdown - performance kept decreasing as you went up from 1x internal resolution in such a situation..

Interestingly, even setting exclusive ubershaders only reduced performance by about 5fps which implies to me that I am in fact looking at a memory bandwidth bottleneck here, especially since other places in the game I can run as high as 5x internal resolution without a single frame-drop (using hybrid ubershaders)... but as soon as I hit any of these situations where memory bandwidth comes in, I basically need to go all the way to 1x internal resolution. Needless to say, a dynamic resolution function would be really nice in such a case.

Do note however that this is very much a "stress test" as F-Zero GX is definitely one of the more demanding games.

[LeBoulet]

(05-26-2022, 09:00 AM)Nintendo Maniac 64 Wrote: I can't help but notice that your post itself typo'd it as 9500hx rather than the 5900hx used in the title...

Regardless, 4k is questionable, but 3x internal resolution aka 1440p should be no problem (using Vulkan could help too, but OpenGL is generally fine on Linux) assuming that it's dual-channel memory as even the Ryzen 2400G if I recall can do that even in Rogue Leader with hybrid ubershaders, albeit with some minor CPU-bottlenecking due to being Zen1 (I just remember it being a Zen1 or Zen+ desktop APU that managed to do it, and those tended to max out at something like DDR4-3200 as well).

I know that my old HD5870 (with a 5850 BIOS) can handle 3x IR + 4xSSAA (so effectively rendering at 5k) at least at ~45fps (I was CPU-bottlenecked) in 3-player splitscreen on F-Zero GX in OpenGL on Linux Mint 18.x, and that's a GPU that should almost certainly be weaker.  The problem is that higher resolutions rely heavily on memory bandwidth, and memory bandwidth is the one place where integrated graphics can be lacking compared to even 15-year old higher-end discrete GPUs.

This is also why dual-channel RAM of a not-slow speed will be very important for your use-case - single channel will cut your memory bandwidth in half.


For reference, the CPU portion should be generally fine since even its base clock of the 5900HX is 3.3GHz and, since it's an 8core CPU and Dolphin doesn't really use more than 2 or 3 threads (maybe 4 if you use LLE DSP), the CPU should be able to maintain clocks moderately higher than 3.3GHz without issue - especially since it's an HX model with a 45w TDP.  Also it being Zen3 means you're not going to need anywhere near as much clockspeed as something like the previously-mentioned Zen1/Zen+ desktop APU due to substantial IPC improvements (I mean, the 3400G was 65w 4c/8t 12nm Zen+ that maxed out at 4.2GHz and you're looking at 45w 8c/16t 7nm Zen3 that maxes out at 4.6GHz, so I'd honestly be surprised if the CPU wasn't more than enough - and this is factoring in that APUs always had reduced L3 cache vs their non-APU counterparts).

Bonjour,

Yes, I made a mistake in writing my comment, it is indeed R9 5900HX not an R9 9500HX. my mistake sorry.

Your answer is incredibly detailed, thank you very much for reassuring me!
Meanwhile, after much research on various websites, I undertook to learn more about the graphics chipset of the processor by contacting "AMD" directly to ask them for an order of equivalence in terms of power, with a graphics card at home.
They told me that the chipset would be more or less equivalent to a "RX460" graphics card.
They also told me the same thing as you about the RAM frequency, that it would determine the power of my graphics chipset, and that the processor only accepted a maximum of 3200MHZ.
There will be 2 trays of ram from 16gb.

thanks again for sharing the info.

Cordially.

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

I just realized that I seemed to have been making a major edit to my previous post around the same time that you were posting your most recent post, so you may have not noticed the edits.

[LeBoulet]

(05-27-2022, 04:35 AM)Nintendo Maniac 64 Wrote: I just realized that I seemed to have been making a major edit to my previous post around the same time that you were posting your most recent post, so you may have not noticed the edits.

Hi

Yes, I saw your edit.
Taking your remarks into account and not wanting to take any risks, I prefer to go with another configuration which will no longer be in Mini-PC format, but in mini-atx format.

A priori, the RTX 4000 series will be released in July at "normal" prices, so I would take the 2080 xc ultra from my current PC to equip my Mini-ITX which I would replace with a 4000, and with the 2080 xc ultra , I would take an R5 5600X and 16 gi DDR4 3000mhz

It should be more than enough to mount my retro-gaming console 4k 60 Fps.

Thanks for your help.

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

You seemed to have also typo'd your initial sentence as "mini atx" rather than "mini itx"...

Regardless, a GeForce 2080 is more than enough indeed, but keep in mind that Nvidia on Linux can sometimes be troublesome (emphasis on "sometimes" - the main thing being that I have no experience with batocera, so ideally you should definitely try it beforehand).

That being said, if you're more than happy with "only" 6 high-performance cores then I'd instead look towards an i5 or even i3 12th gen Intel, perhaps even one of the models without the E cores (e.g. everything below the i5-12600K) since, honestly overclocking isn't that beneficial anymore (the models without E-cores also don't support overclocking) and this will also avoid the higher heat and power consumption seen on higher-end 12th Intel CPUs which can be important for an SFF PC build (though, if you're looking to use a factory-overclocked GeForce 2080 and are even considering the GeForce 4000 series at all for your normal PC, then you probably don't care about heat and/or power consumption)

If the concern was DDR4 vs DDR5 then simply get a DDR4-equipped LGA1700 motherboard instead.

Also the 2080 xc ultra is a 3-slot GPU so, at minimum, you're going to be forced to use a micro ATX case at minimum. Therefore, outside of the historical issue of micro ATX motherboards being the "red-headed step-child" compared to full ATX and mini ITX in terms of board quality and feature-set (e.g. there is literally, not figuratively, only one micro ATX X570 motherboard available... though that was really only an issue before B550's belated launch), there's very little practical reason to go with a mini ITX motherboard over a micro ATX one... unless you go with a different GPU.



An alternative, somewhat unconventional option may be to try using one of Intel's high-end series of NUCs that allow or include a discrete GPU, the newest being "Phantom Canyon" (i7-1165G7 + GeForce 2060 mobile).

...however, I would be wary of using the newer "Phantom Canyon" with Linux as hybrid or switchable graphics is quite possibly the most notorious situation for Nvidia + Linux, in which case it could be better to use an older NUC that either uses a mobile Radeon dGPU or straight-up has a slot to use a desktop dGPU, avoiding the hybrid graphics issue altogether. The following year-old list focusing on Linux gaming on Intel NUCs predates the newest "Phantom Canyon" and therefore avoids the aforementioned Nvidia + hybrid graphics situation:

• https://linuxhint.com/best-gaming-intel-nuc/

...though the 4th one on the list may have a CPU that's a bit lacking for emulation (U-series 8th gen i3).

Note in particular that the first one on that list, the "performance kit", is the one that uses a desktop dGPU and there are newer versions of that which would also work, aptly named "NUC 10 performance kit" and "NUC 11 performance kit", and even the "NUC 12 extreme kit".

[LeBoulet]

I managed to freeze the configuration which will finally be in mini-itx.
Unless contraindicated by you, it will not move anymore.
I tried to find the smallest box to install all this and as you say, the 2080 xc ultra takes 3 slots so I had some problems. I saw the "sliger SM560" which could be perfect, but it takes 250 euros to take it with some options (two 3.5" hard drives) and without watercooling, while the coolermaster NR200 includes all the options for 85euros (with watercooling), they are approximately the same size, even if the SLIGER SM560 is smaller...

It's moving forward! ^^



convertisseur de langue

[KHg8m3r]

Any reason you're pairing an unlocked Intel CPU with a motherboard you can't overclock?

[Nintendo Maniac 64]

Just an optional alternative RAM that's DDR4-3600 CL18 for only 9 Euro more:

• https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B07Z86WC1Z

However, according to PcPartPicker, the resulting latency is the same as DDR4-3200 CL16 so, unless you're doing something that's heavy on the CPU memory controller, it's questionable if that'd actually provide any benefit.

Regardless, don't forget to enable XMP!

----------------------------------------------------------------

The 850w version of that very same PSU seems to be on sale for only 8 more Euros, so you might as well just go for that one even if 750w should be enough (not counting Intel and Nvidia's recent affinity for throwing power efficiency out the window...):

• https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B08BKQ23XC

At the very least a higher-wattage unit should be able to not need the fan to ramp up as much under load which could be useful for a SFF PC.

Speaking of which, you'll probably want to make sure that you get the revised version of that power supply which fixed a fan noise issue - the way you can tell is that the revised version says "100% Japanese capacitor" on the box (though I'm uncertain if it'd literally say that in English considering that you're ordering from France).

Relevant video on the subject of the revised fan:

• https://youtu.be/z1Fxz-ZWbtM

----------------------------------------------------------------

I know that Samsung Pro SSDs are highly regarded but, I'll be honest, I always found them to be overly-expensive for their capacity and it looks like you've selected one that's only 250GB. I mean, Samsung's own non-pro SSDs are available in 500GB capacities at a price cheaper than what you've selected, let alone non-Samsung drives.

Nevertheless, it's also possible that you're use-case will only be using not even 100GB of capacity on the SSD so it's up to you - I just know that some people will do things like a 250GB Samsung Pro SSD paired with a 2TB mechanical HDD rather than just getting a 1TB SSD on it's own for a similar price (with the idea of adding a secondary drive later if they end up really needing the capacity since it's much easier to add additional secondary storage afterwards than it is to upgrade the capacity of your primary storage), and this has just gotten more and more the case now that a 1TB SSD is actually moderately cheaper than a 250GB Samsung Pro + 2TB HDD.

Besides, you're using a 10 TB HDD anyway so your use-case is clearly not quite the same as most other people's.

Relevant listing of m.2 SSDs of 450GB or larger that definitely have a DRAM cache, sorted by Euro price in France (you can set it to only display Amazon France listings under Filters -> Merchants; on desktop click "Merchants" in the left sidebar):

• https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/products/internal-hard-drive/#t=0&sort=price&A=450000000000,20000000000000&f=122080&C=3145728,137438953472

Unfortunately PcPartPicker doesn't fully keep up with which SSDs have a DRAM cache so the above list doesn't have everything; e.g. the Corsair MP510 is the cheapest available 900+GB m.2 TLC SSD with a DRAM cache but PcPartPicker just lists nothing for its cache, thereby requiring the user to instead refer to something like the following SSD "cheat sheet" to see if a given SSD has a DRAM cache or not:

• https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B27_j9NDPU3cNlj2HKcrfpJKHkOf-Oi1DbuuQva2gT4/edit#gid=0

Oh so yeah, you'll similarly need to refer to that above Google Docs link if you want to make absolute sure if a given SSD has TLC NAND rather than the much-slower QLC NAND, though TLC vs QLC is a common enough thing that it's commonly mentioned in a product's name (the Corsair MP510 for example says "TLC" right in the Amazon France product title listing).


So for reference, here's all m.2 SSDs of 450GB or larger regardless of what PcPartPicker lists their cache as:

• https://fr.pcpartpicker.com/products/internal-hard-drive/#t=0&sort=price&A=450000000000,20000000000000&f=122080

(06-03-2022, 04:33 AM)KHg8m3r Wrote: Any reason you're pairing an unlocked Intel CPU with a motherboard you can't overclock?

My guess is that they want the additional E-cores provided by the 12600K which is the lowest-end desktop SKU that still provides E-cores (12600 non-K and below lack E-cores).

[LeBoulet]

I selected the M2 samsung pro SSD for its read and write speed given at 7000MB/s (PCIe 4).
I think I would have a much better pc boot than with a 3500mb/s (PCIe 3).
Regarding the size, it seems judicious to me insofar as there will be tons of templates to download (cover, updates...), which will therefore (if possible) be stored on this memory.
Even if I know that I overestimate a lot by taking 250 GB (minimum in PCIe 4.0). What is done is no longer to be done.

Speaking of mechanical drives, I would probably recycle two hard drives from my current pc and put them in this one. 3TB hard drives. CHDs and ISOs are very heavy, and I need to free up slots in my main pc. Two birds with one stone.

(06-03-2022, 04:33 AM)KHg8m3r Wrote: Any reason you're pairing an unlocked Intel CPU with a motherboard you can't overclock?

About the processor, the 12600K has several advantages over 12600:

- 1.69x faster processor
6 x 3.7GHz & 4 x 2.8GHz vs 6 x 3.3GHz

- 4 more threads
16 instead of 12

- A larger L2 and L3 cache of 2MB

And all this for only 4 euros more.  (Currently, because Amazon is playing with prices)

This is the list of parts, but I allow myself the possibility of ordering elsewhere, I would of course go for the cheapest on the day of the order.
I still have the RTX 4000 series to buy...
A real madness this PC, but when you love, you don't count.