Metroid Prime Slowdown Observation

[hyperspeed]

Xtreme2damax you know something about about it.
Metroid Prime on dolphin R6000 running in the USA.
Chozo Ruins in the entrance drop to 25 FPS. (MP here runs to 40 to 60FPS in other places)        
Maybe Hyrule Field Slowdown and Chozo Ruins Slowdown have something in common.
Almost forgot every time you use the power bomb FPS fall by half.
Thanks anyway.

[NaturalViolence]

Quote:Almost forgot every time you use the power bomb FPS fall by half.

Completely normal depending on the build.

Quote:Maybe Hyrule Field Slowdown and Chozo Ruins Slowdown have something in common.

Nope, just hard to get fullspeed is all.

If you want to improve your performance in mp1 just use a revision from before hybrid efb to ram was implemented, anything in the 5000-5300 range would be perfect. That is the main cause of the drop in performance.

[Xtreme2damax]

NV, hybrid EFB -> Ram improves performance, not decreases it and is only active when using Copy EFB -> Ram. This is why ZTP, RE: Remake, RE0, NSMB all have better performance now when using Copy EFB -> Ram. If using EFB to texture, the hybrid commit doesn't affect anything, only if using EFB -> Ram.

If you meant commits since the hybrid EFB -> Ram commit causing performance issues I'd be more inclined to agree, but the hybrid EFB -> Ram commit is not the cause of any performance issues. It is known as it has been for a while that using Copy EFB -> Ram does cause a loss of performance, at least on underpowered hardware.

The key to good speed is good hardware, MP is a bit more demanding than other games and processors based on the Intel Core2 and AMD Phenom architectures or older will experience slowdowns. I get slowdowns even on my Core2Duo @ 4.06 Ghz, but my new Core i7 even at stock *gasp* breezes through every game I throw at it, even Hyrule Field in ZTP without the speedhack enabled and fullspeed almost constantly in SMG1/SMG2.

[Ocean]

(09-20-2010, 10:04 PM)Xtreme2damax Wrote: I get slowdowns even on my Core2Duo @ 4.06 Ghz, but my new Core i7 even at stock *gasp* breezes through every game I throw at it, even Hyrule Field in ZTP without the speedhack enabled and fullspeed almost constantly in SMG1/SMG2.

That's because clock frequency is obviously not 'everything' (while it does make a difference).
As you stated in another thread, it would run games at full speed on stock clocks @3.06ghz while the c2d @4.06 would still lag.
What matters more is what is achieved in one clock cycle

[Xtreme2damax]

Yeah I know, which is why I mention that, better hardware = better speed plain and simple. To solve slowdowns, you need better hardware. No amount of optimization can fully account for underpowered hardware and some games are very cpu intensive.

[NaturalViolence]

Quote:NV, hybrid EFB -> Ram improves performance, not decreases it and is only active when using Copy EFB -> Ram. This is why ZTP, RE: Remake, RE0, NSMB all have better performance now when using Copy EFB -> Ram.

Why would adding additional steps and not removing any IMPROVE performance?

Quote:If using EFB to texture, the hybrid commit doesn't affect anything, only if using EFB -> Ram.

I'm well aware. This is why I use the term "hybrid efb". I don't call it efb to ram because that's not what it is, true efb to ram was axed months ago.

Quote:If you meant commits since the hybrid EFB -> Ram commit causing performance issues I'd be more inclined to agree, but the hybrid EFB -> Ram commit is not the cause of any performance issues.

Well whatever is doing it happened at almost the exact same time hybrid efb to ram was implemented and only kills performance when efb to ram is being used, so it would make perfect sense, but if you have another explanation I'de love to hear it.

Quote:It is known as it has been for a while that using Copy EFB -> Ram does cause a loss of performance, at least on underpowered hardware.

Although this is true you must understand that mp used to run fullspeed for most high end users with efb to ram until about the time hybrid efb to ram was implemented.

Quote:The key to good speed is good hardware, MP is a bit more demanding than other games and processors based on the Intel Core2 and AMD Phenom architectures or older will experience slowdowns.

Not if they use an older build. Then any decent core 2 or phenom II should get fullspeed most of the time even with efb to ram.

Quote:No amount of optimization can fully account for underpowered hardware and some games are very cpu intensive.

Once again, older builds run it fine, even with efb to ram. So yes, optimization can account for underpowered hardware. I'm not saying it's a good idea but if you designed a build of dolphin specifically for mp you could attain fullspeed without any problems on what I would consider medium end hardware.

[Xtreme2damax]

NV, Metroid prime has always had slowdowns on all builds. It's a fairly common problem, the slowdowns have existed for as long as I could remember since the game started working. Most of the time the game runs full speed, but it has slowdown issues like other games. I think you should read the definition rodolfo gave for what the hybrid efb -> ram does to better understand it. It only makes using Copy EFB -> Ram faster than before, specifically for games that rely on it. It gives NSMB an extra 15 FPS - 20 FPS when using Copy EFB -> Ram than before, there is little to no slowdowns with ZTP when using Copy EFB -> Ram now. In the past NSMB was running at 20 FPS - 30 FPS with Copy EFB -> Ram, now it runs at 45 FPS - 50 FPS. In the past ZTP lost 5 FPS - 10+ FPS when using Copy EFB to Ram, now speed loss due to EFB -> Ram is nearly non-existent in this game, also speeds up SMS and ZWW with EFB -> Ram. Using EFB -> Texture is just as fast as it has always been and if there is any speed loss it is unrelated to the hybrid efb -> ram commits.

What I mentioned is actually quite accurate, no amount of optimization can fully account for underpowered hardware, if it was then we would all be playing PS2 games on PCSX2 full speed with a Pentium 4 or an AMD64 X 2 dual core by now.

Hardware does matter, as my upgrade to a Core i7 has recently proved. There is only so much optimizing that can be done for underpowered hardware, you still need a beastly system to enjoy some games full speed as anything less is underpowered, for such cpu intensive games. Believe me, I've been around for a while and have seen a lot of stuff since becoming involved in emulation a while back. I am most active throughout several emulation communities and am actually quite experienced, it's one of the things that encouraged me to create my own emulation community a few years back.

There was a recent commit that cause slowdowns with some games and Copy EFB -> Ram enabled, but the hybrid efb -> ram commit isn't responsible for this since this started happening more recently than those commits:

http://code.google.com/p/dolphin-emu/issues/detail?id=3140

[Starscream]

In my opinion the only reason for a thread to be made about a "slowdown observation" is when a game runs well 90% of the time and there is just some odd area where the frame-rate drops dramatically. Something like that is showing that there is something wrong with the code. This type of game drops down in fps quite often in many areas and just needs more power to run the game.

[hyperspeed]

(09-21-2010, 03:57 AM)[SS] Starscream Wrote: This type of game drops down in fps quite often in many areas and just needs more power to run the game.

Maybe but MP this part runs with 25 FPS efb to texture enable dual core (3.0GHz) enable idle skipping.
Something is wrong maybe this is not a issue of optimization.

[Xtreme2damax]

Yeah, slowdowns are normal with this game for now. I've had fps dip that low in quite a few spots and it isn't a recent issue, some games just require a lot of power to emulate and then there are some games with bugs that causes slowdowns. Optimizing the emulator more should cure some speed issues, but it isn't going to fully account for or solve slowdowns in games where the emulator has to process a lot of geometry and vertex data as these are almost always limited by the cpu.

The Hyrule Field issue is abnormal in the sense that it isn't the geometry or vertices causing the slowdowns, but rather the constant efb reads/writes for the minimap texture that contributed to slowdowns. It was a strange issue which is why I posted a thread. It seems that newer Core i7 processors, a decent modern gpu and fast DDR3 ram is able to handle the constant efb reads/writes for the minimap texture without enabling the ZTP speedup hack and also processing the geometry/vertex data in SMG1, SMG2, MP1, MP2 etc.. without much slowdowns.