Laptop/Desktop Conversation

[admin89]

When will we have the first 8 cores mobile CPU ? (Laptop)
I don't care AMD or Intel . If AMD released 8 cores mobile CPU that beat Intel in most benchmark + High Turbo Boost / Turbo Core Frequency (low power consumption is a "must" because I don't want to use laptop like a cooker) , I would ditch Intel

Desktop ->Future : Laptop
Laptop -> Future : Smartphone / Tablet (Well , I'm not sure about tablet though . It's too big for me)
Smartphone -> Future : ??? A watch or sth like google glass or maybe this
Should I post this in random thread ?

[Shonumi]

Anyone remember my "future cube" talk, thereabouts Posts #8 and #10 on the first page?

me Wrote:Desktops too could evolve. Whose to say that "hulking" machine won't be the size of a 3 inch cube some time in the future? Computers used to take up entire gymnasiums; telling people in the 60s that you'd have a box many magnitudes smaller in 50 years, you might have gotten some strange looks. I'm just keeping an open mind here; I'm sure we haven't seen the limits of our own innovation.

Have you guys been keeping up with Intel's Next Unit Computing? The idea is to fit shrink most of the components you'd find in a desktop into a tiny little box. Some links I've looked at:

http://liliputing.com/2013/01/intels-300-nuc-mini-computer-is-now-available-for-purchase.html
http://liliputing.com/2013/01/gigabyte-tweaks-intel-nuc-designs-mini-desktop-with-up-to-core-i7-cpu.html
http://liliputing.com/2013/01/hands-on-with-the-velocity-micro-edge-mini-499-mini-desktop.html

Of course, they're a bit too weak for most gamers, but it's more than enough muscle to handle most emulation up to N64/PSX (the only reason I'm interested in it), HTPC tasks, and general computing for the office drones. Heard these machines run hot atm, but that's pretty much a given. Personally, I'd like to see this category of desktop evolve (so I can finally get the perfect emu-console).

In other misc. news, I read that ultrabooks haven't yet been the saving grace that Intel had hoped they would be; some analysts said the prices were simply too high when the market is flooded with cheap enough laptops already. Meanwhile, tablet and smartphone sales continue to eat into both desktop and laptop sales. Both laptop and desktop sales didn't receive a big boost from the release of Windows 8, even though many speculated that would take place like it did with Windows 7. The demand in the market is definitely leaning towards mobile, and that's where laptops, tablets, and smartphones are all competing for dollars. Next few months (this whole year really) are going to be interesting to watch.

[NaturalViolence]

admin89 Wrote:When will we have the first 8 cores mobile CPU ? (Laptop)
I don't care AMD or Intel . If AMD released 8 cores mobile CPU that beat Intel in most benchmark + High Turbo Boost / Turbo Core Frequency (low power consumption is a "must" because I don't want to use laptop like a cooker) , I would ditch Intel

In other words you would buy from AMD again if they actually made good cpus. Just like everyone else on the planet. The problem is that's a big "if" at this point. Also I doubt the usefulness of an 8 core cpu on a laptop at this point.

Shonumi Wrote:Have you guys been keeping up with Intel's Next Unit Computing? The idea is to fit shrink most of the components you'd find in a desktop into a tiny little box. Some links I've looked at:

http://liliputing.com/2013/01/intels-300...chase.html
http://liliputing.com/2013/01/gigabyte-t...7-cpu.html
http://liliputing.com/2013/01/hands-on-w...sktop.html

Of course, they're a bit too weak for most gamers, but it's more than enough muscle to handle most emulation up to N64/PSX (the only reason I'm interested in it), HTPC tasks, and general computing for the office drones. Heard these machines run hot atm, but that's pretty much a given. Personally, I'd like to see this category of desktop evolve (so I can finally get the perfect emu-console).

This is basically a nettop/small HTPC. They've been around for a long time but never been heavily marketed. Lately it seems Intel is trying to market lots of new low profile platforms since the PC marketplace is beginning to recede. They're looking for a replacement for traditional PCs basically. None of them have really stuck though. I don't understand the point in making desktops (a system that isn't designed to be portable and usually stays in the same place all the time) smaller.

[Shonumi]

NaturalViolence Wrote:I don't understand the point in making desktops (a system that isn't designed to be portable and usually stays in the same place all the time) smaller.

This is actually the kind of device I've been in search of for quite some time. I'm looking for the "perfect" emu-console, a device that just sits there permanently next to my HDTV. My main desktop stays in my room, and I use that for work, internet browsing, videos, and late night gaming (Xonotic + emulators usually). On the weekends though, I like to kick back and play games on the big screen. I want something that will let me reasonably play all of my favorite emulators without having to move my desktop to the loft. Tried with some success using my Raspberry Pi. My MK803 works incredibly well for this task, but it's not so hot on PSX or N64 emulation.

I've looked at the nettop market for a while; none of them that I'd looked at had Ivy Bridge CPUs in them though (a few had Sandy Bridge CPUs). They had mostly had Atom products or low-power offerings from AMD. NUC seems different simply for beefing up the processor, unless those Atom chips are a lot stronger than they look to be. Essentially, I'm looking for small (and I mean really small) x86 based machine that can just sit there and handle my emulators. I'm keeping an eye out for more products to arrive.

[NaturalViolence]

But why does it have to be small is my question?

After a certain point you have to look to complex custom cooling solutions etc. to squeeze more power out of a small form factor. And even then you can only squeeze so much more out of it. The "standard" hardware tends to be cheap but also weak. But if you're willing to get a larger system it's fairly easy to get lots of processing power for cheap. You also have to trade flexibility (expansion and usb ports for example) for small size.

The newegg reviews on that device are pretty mediocre. It seems to have a lot of shortcomings if you dig deeper.

You can build a sandy bridge celeron based nettop for around $300 that should meet your needs and be more flexible.

[Shonumi]

(01-30-2013, 07:59 AM)NaturalViolence Wrote: But why does it have to be small is my question?

Because I honestly do not have enough space in the loft to connect another device to the HDTV. The Wii, PS2, PS3, and 360 already sit side-by-side is on the carpet; there's no more comfortable (or visually pleasing) real-estate on the floor, and I haven't even bought a WiiU yet. My Raspberry Pi and MK803 are just small enough where they can sit behind the TV. Anything larger than a DVD drive won't sit right on the cabinet. Yes, it has to be small in this case. Since it has to sit behind the TV, I'd also appreciate it being as inconspicuous as possible in an already clustered space. Size is exactly the reason I was interested in the RPi, other ARM based dev-boards, and Android "PC-on-a-stick" devices when it came to creating my emu-console. The issue is now finding the proper power, else I'd have just gutted a cheap netbook and hooked it up to the HDTV (and I was considering this).

NaturalViolence Wrote:After a certain point you have to look to complex custom cooling solutions etc. to squeeze more power out of a small form factor. And even then you can only squeeze so much more out of it. The "standard" hardware tends to be cheap but also weak. But if you're willing to get a larger system it's fairly easy to get lots of processing power for cheap. You also have to trade flexibility (expansion and usb ports for example) for small size.

The point at which it needs custom cooling is the point I stop looking at it as a viable product. I'm looking for a mini-PC I can just buy, put it behind my TV, and have enough power to play a handful of emulators. Installing a mini-fan is fine, passive cooling is ideal (though not always possible given device dimensions) anything more than that is behind the scope of my hobby. That's part of the reason why most NUC options aren't attractive atm, since it requires users to purchase a lot of additional parts (primarily memory and storage), just like a bare-bones PC-kit. I'm in the market for something I can buy and run as soon as the package hits my front door. Only a few vendors are doing that (granted, NUC hasn't been pushed for more than a few months anyway) and those are the ones that have my attention currently.

I'm not worried about getting lots of processing power for cheap, just enough to match or exceed my old laptop (Intel Pentium T3400) which ran everything I wanted from it, excepting Dolphin and PCSX2. In reality, the only ports I'll need are HDMI and 1 USB for the joystick. Once the emu-console is setup (e.g. custom interface completed, emulators compiled and configured), I'll be able to control the whole thing with only a joystick. The RPi was my prototype for this, and it worked out alright as far as experiments go.

NaturalViolence Wrote:The newegg reviews on that device are pretty mediocre. It seems to have a lot of shortcomings if you dig deeper.

Most of the cons don't seem to apply to my situation as far as I can tell. I only really care that the device can best my old laptop in terms of CPU performance and size. The lack of a power adapter sucks, and as I said, I'm not interested in buying a bare-bones kit (the Velocity Micro Edge Mini is more my style). In general, this product seems right for me for the purpose of getting an emu-console, but most NUC are too costly for me to consider purchasing. Were these devices somewhere in the $350 range, I'd snap one up later this year. $500+ is too much, and I could get a stronger low-profile PC for that price-point (but probably not at the size I need it).

NaturalViolence Wrote:You can build a sandy bridge celeron based nettop for around $300 that should meet your needs and be more flexible.

Show me the parts and show that it'll fit the size requirements, and then I'll reconsider whether NUC devices would make good emu-consoles for me.

EDIT: Alternatively, if you can find me any nettop with more power than my laptop, be it Sandy Bridge or Atom, in that price/size range, I'd seriously flip, in a good way mind you :p

[admin89]

Quote:Intel's Next Unit Computing

Almost the same mobo as laptop
It's not cheap and it has no LCD/LED screen
-> Laptop all the way
Edit : I thought it was 7"x7" in size . It's 4"x4" -> Much smaller than Laptop mobo . I changed my mind , it will be good if it not overheat when maximum CPU load and it must have Intel HD 4600 - Haswell or better GPU

Quote:But why does it have to be small is my question?

3DS and Wii ,which one is more convenient for you ? . I always dream about a small device that could play Shogun 2 (high settings at least) in bed , Laptop is out of the question because of the heat and it's too heavy to lift it up while playing game

Quote: Also I doubt the usefulness of an 8 core cpu on a laptop at this point.

*rpcs3* 5 FPS is still ok for testing (not possible atm)

[lamedude]

A 8core Xeon at 1.8GHZ/2.3GHZ turbo has a 70wTDP. A low voltage 22nm version of that could probably do 55w. Your program would need almost perfect scaling to beat the 3GHZ/3.9GHZ turbo i7-3940XM.