Laptop/Desktop Conversation

[zurginator]

No, you can't have a 4.5ghz 12-thread CPU in a laptop. No, you can't have 3 GTX 480s in a laptop. No, you can't have a RAID 0 SSD array for Windows and programs, a 3TB storage drive, a 1TB games drive, and a 1TB RAID 1 array for your work in a laptop. No, you can't put a sound card in a laptop, nor run surround sound. You CAN have 12 gigs of ram in a laptop, but it tends to be a slower variety. 14 USB ports without using hubs is also a plus. Laptops also tend to suck at multi-monitor support.

And for the record, AMD's mobile GPUs suck. I've got a 5870 in my laptop, and it was all I could do to simply get the drivers to recognize it as an AMD GPU. Performance in the CryEngine Editor? About 12 fps, with some MAJOR stuttering. Photoshop didn't play nice with AMD's Open GL, and no, a 1.6ghz i7 wasn't fast enough to deal with large brushes and huge PSD files. Sketchup was near unusable with higher poly models.

Could *most* people replace their desktop with a laptop? Yeah. Could I? Nope.


--I also realized post-writing that this might come of as very condescending. This was not the intent of the post.--

[Starscream]

Listing a bunch of hardware facts does not tell me what you're going to do with your desktop that I cannot do with my possible future laptop.

http://ark.intel.com/products/64887/Intel-Core-i7-3920XM-Processor-Extreme-Edition-%288M-Cache-up-to-3_80-GHz%29

http://sites.amd.com/us/promo/graphics/7000m/Pages/radeon-7900m-series.aspx#2

You having issues with a crappy GPU doesn't really mean a whole lot to me.

Why can't I have surround sound on my laptop?

Why do I need 12 threads?

Which laptops tend to suck at multi-monitor support?

Why can't I have a 3TB storage drive?

Why do I need 14 USB hubs?

Some of this is just ridiculous.

[ExtremeDude2]

(04-27-2012, 09:36 AM)Starscream Wrote: Why do I need 12 threads?

Encoding >.>

(04-27-2012, 09:36 AM)Starscream Wrote: Which laptops tend to suck at multi-monitor support?

The ones with only one video output/no display port >.>

[Shonumi]

(04-27-2012, 06:03 AM)Starscream Wrote: I think that is the main concern. If you look back at some posts in this thread, you'll find more than a few stating that they feel like desktops have better specs and that is the reason they would not choose a laptop (and is the main reason behind the second poll answer).

You'll have to excuse me then. Given the current direction this thread has taken, the relative hardware merits of desktops and laptops seems to be anything but the heart of the issue here. Were it the main concern of this topic, we probably would have had more posts like SlickDragon's with NaturalViolence's rebuttals. Those were at least detailed thoughts about the abilities of each from a hardware perspective. Such thorough discussions would have gone a long way to countering the view that laptop hardware can't handle the same tasks desktops can.

Instead, we've ended up debating the overall merits of desktop and laptops themselves, bringing up issues such as price, the need for mobility, and a whole host of analogies and examples. The poll does nothing to help this. To me, it only reinforces that this is a conversation about what can or can't laptops do that desktop already do. Many of the limitations on laptops, as you have correctly noticed, are not hardware based, but rather issues with their given form factor.

For zurginator, some of it's not that laptop hardware itself is in some way inferior, just that the current form factor prohibits things such as RAID 0 SSD arrays, 14 USB slots, and in some cases multi-monitor displays. If you want this to be a thread regarding laptop and desktop hardware and specs and what each is capable of, then you've got to do something about the posts that are comparing laptops and desktops based on their form factors. It'd probably be less frustrating in the long run.

[NaturalViolence]

Starscream Wrote:For those who picked the second option, I'd like to hear some solid arguments for what it is exactly that the laptop SlickDragon was talking about in the first post is not capable of doing that a desktop only is. Some answers have already been given, but lets go through them so I can get unconfused.

I already answered this VERY thoroughly in both of my posts. Take another read:

NaturalViolence Wrote:Laptops have always been able to do everything that desktops can do even back in the late 80s. They are both PCs. However desktops have always been better at doing certain things (gaming, server, workstation, media center) and this has also always remained true. We're still in the same situation we've always been in whether people realize it or not. Only two things have really changed are:
1. Laptops are finally "good enough" for most people. Whereas in the past they weren't. However this is subjective. The definition of "good enough" is different from person to person. For most people they are good enough for not for everyone depending on what you plan on doing with your PC.
2. A lot of the problems with laptops have been fixed or improved. Battery life and reliability used to be shit in most laptops.

Like shonumi was trying to say laptops can do everything a desktop can and vice versa. But sometimes desktops are better at a particular task. This has now been repeated over and over so I'm not sure what it is that you're still not getting.

Starscream Wrote:zurginator is implying that I cannot use Photoshop and CryEngine with a top-of-the-line laptop like an i7 3920xm and a 7970m?

No, zurginator never implied that. YOU are implying that he meant that. Reread what he said:

zurginator Wrote:I have a professional laptop as well as a monster desktop.... and trust me, it's nice having a powerful desktop when messing with Photoshop and CryEngine.

Where does that say he can't run photoshop or cryengine on a laptop? You're putting words in his mouth.

Starscream Wrote:Lets be serious and try to think about it, when I power up that laptop, you'd better be sure that it is physically impossible for whatever reason and that the laptop in question is just not able to perform whatever task you're about to list. That would be the only way you could justify picking the second poll option, so lets hear it. Who knows, maybe I'll be all about desktops after hearing all these reasons, or maybe not. Smile

You seem to be misunderstanding the poll option. Read it:

Poll Wrote:Yes, laptops aren't good for everything.

That says nothing about a task being impossible. It's stating that desktops are better at certain things.

Starscream Wrote:I'm not really following that too much. Keyboard? That's the reason? That's a really weak excuse to use a desktop over a laptop, but okay, if that's your preference, I can live with that.

He listed one example of how a desktop can be better at something. He didn't say that would be his only reason to buy a desktop over a laptop. Please stop putting words in peoples mouths.

Starscream Wrote:He said it's "better" and the poll option is worded as "laptops aren't good for everything", but the laptop processor is every bit as good as his desktop processor in this case, so he must not be talking about the CPU.

I'm confused. Who is "he"?

Starscream Wrote:So what exactly is "better"? I can lay the laptop on the desk, turn it on and do exactly what he's going to do, so what am I missing? I just really want to get to the bottom of where this is coming from and so far, there is no satisfying answer. Somehow I have a feeling that people still have the age-old misconception about laptops and are just not able to get away from that argument for whatever reason even though it makes no sense anymore. Maybe things will become more clear as others post and then this thread can come to its eventual end.

Better is better. Faster is better. Easier/more convenient is better. The word "better" is not restricted to one piece of hardware.

If you are instead trying to ask "what about a desktops hardware/setup is better?" well then that's something that has been talked about already but to reiterate:
-bigger higher resolution screen
-faster cpu, gpu
-ability to have more ram
-3.5" HDD support
-high end internal audio cards/peripherals
-convenient for multimonitor setups
-ergonomic keyboard support

If you are trying to ask "what tasks can a desktop perform better?" well that too has already been answered but I will state some examples again:
-media centers
-servers
-high end gaming systems
-workstations (especially for scientific, engineering, image processing, video processing, video encoding, and programming applications, all of which are highly multithreaded)

Shonumi Wrote:As NV said, it's not an issue of hardware, so I too don't think anyone here is trying to (or should) argue which one has superior specs.

Starscream Wrote:I think that is the main concern.

What!!?!?! How is this not a major concern. Desktops have access to higher end hardware than laptops at a fraction of the price. How is that not a major issue?

Starscream Wrote:Why can't I have surround sound on my laptop?

You can, but it would be inconvenient. It would require a large complex speaker setup throughout the entire room that you would have to plug/unplug every time you want to move your laptop, which kind of helps defeat the convenient mobility factor of a laptop. Plus without a big screen and a proper chair/couch 5-10 ft. away from the front speakers you're going to seriously diminish the advantage of a surround sound setup.

Starscream Wrote:Why do I need 12 threads?

You don't but it helps when you're running slow multithreaded apps like professional 3D rendering software (maya, 3dstudio max, etc.), engineering software (autocad, etc.), video encoders,

Starscream Wrote:Which laptops tend to suck at multi-monitor support?

All of them. Have you ever tried it? Having more than two monitors is usually not even supported, you have to change your configuration if you unplug the second monitor, and you can't get the monitors to line up vertically which makes switching between them while working a pain.

Starscream Wrote:Why can't I have a 3TB storage drive?

Because 3TB laptop HDDs don't exist. You need an external drive or a very special laptop with a 3.5" bay to do that.

Starscream Wrote:Why do I need 14 USB ports?

Because you have a dozen usb devices hooked up to your system at once and you don't want messy hubs everywhere, like me.

Hooked up to my desktop right now I have 9 usb devices:
-wireless keyboard
-wireless mouse
-usb webcam
-usb microphone (the one in my webcam sucks)
-logitech rumbepad 2 controller for emulators
-xbox360 controller for certain pc games
-external HDD for data backup
-wireless LAN adapter (not necessary for a laptop)
-flash drive with my schoolwork on it

I can plug all of these in at the same time without the need for a hub thanks to 8 rear usb ports and 2 front usb ports.

Starscream Wrote:Some of this is just ridiculous.

He's just listing examples of potential advantages. Since you keep acting like desktops couldn't possible be better than laptops at anything and asking us to provide example of those advantages he decided to respond. Whether YOU need these things is irrelevant, SOME people may benefit from these things. So if you're going to try and make the case that laptops are always the better choice then you basically have to pretend that there are no advantages to the desktop design.

Shonumi Wrote:For zurginator, some of it's not that laptop hardware itself is in some way inferior, just that the current form factor prohibits things such as RAID 0 SSD arrays, 14 USB slots, and in some cases multi-monitor displays. If you want this to be a thread regarding laptop and desktop hardware and specs and what each is capable of, then you've got to do something about the posts that are comparing laptops and desktops based on their form factors. It'd probably be less frustrating in the long run.

Well the form factor of a laptop limits the hardware capabilities a lot. However they're still seen as two separate issues. There is no question that desktops win the top hardware award, like I discussed before for most people it's more of an issue of:
-is this laptops hardware "good enough" for me?
-how much more does it cost to buy a laptop with similar specs compared to a desktop?
-do I actually need the mobility offered to me by a laptop?

These should be the three questions anyone should ask themselves when they go to decide whether to buy a laptop, buy a desktop, or build a desktop.

[Zee530]

Desktops are better than laptops atm but 3 out of 5 average users would prefer a laptop

[Shonumi]

(04-27-2012, 02:51 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: What!!?!?! How is this not a major concern. Desktops have access to higher end hardware than laptops at a fraction of the price. How is that not a major issue?

To better clarify, With hardware I'm strictly speaking in terms of capability, i.e. the actual ability to do something, not the matter of price, nor even the extent of its performance. The hardware in laptops is largely capable of doing the same tasks as desktop hardware. Both are driven by the same types of technologies, but given different forms. For the most part, there's little inherent in laptop hardware the excludes it from doing much of what a desktop can do.

The topic was previously about laptop and desktop hardware and the capabilities of each (gaming and such). Since there's not much in hardware that prevents laptops from doing the same functions as desktop, in this regard, I'm saying it's not particularly an issue for what the topic originally discussed. Again, where I say capability, I solely speak in the sense of whether something can be done or not. Where hardware is an issue, as you pointed out, is in how much it will cost and its corresponding performance at that price.

Rather than hardware specifically, I feel that where laptops aren't capable mostly comes down to how they're designed for their form factor, e.g. ergonomic keyboards, multi-monitors, copious USB ports, higher-res screens, etc. I don't believe it's as if there is a technological limitation that prevents some of these features from appearing in laptops. It's just the limitations of the current laptop form factor that don't permit them.

[Gir]

Every computer i owned, i built, and that is the way i like to do it, If one components fails, i can replace easily, and upgrade whatever components, my latest build (sig), is actually an HTPC, not a Desktop, which fits in the TV Unit, with Silent Coolers.

Laptops are just crap, the Keyboards are terrible, specially typing word documents, the Mousepads UGLY, you cant play FPS Games, If any component fails, it costs 10x as much to fix then a Desktop.

As well as the fact, any Laptop with Lithium Batteries has the potential to kill you.


I will stick with Desktops, or my favorite, HTPCs

I am saving for a 3700k i7 HTPC Build

[NaturalViolence]

Quote:the Mousepads UGLY, you cant play FPS Games

You realize that any usb mouse will plug into both desktops and laptops right?

Quote:To better clarify, With hardware I'm strictly speaking in terms of capability, i.e. the actual ability to do something, not the matter of price, nor even the extent of its performance. The hardware in laptops is largely capable of doing the same tasks as desktop hardware. Both are driven by the same types of technologies, but given different forms. For the most part, there's little inherent in laptop hardware the excludes it from doing much of what a desktop can do.

The topic was previously about laptop and desktop hardware and the capabilities of each (gaming and such). Since there's not much in hardware that prevents laptops from doing the same functions as desktop, in this regard, I'm saying it's not particularly an issue for what the topic originally discussed. Again, where I say capability, I solely speak in the sense of whether something can be done or not. Where hardware is an issue, as you pointed out, is in how much it will cost and its corresponding performance at that price.

Rather than hardware specifically, I feel that where laptops aren't capable mostly comes down to how they're designed for their form factor, e.g. ergonomic keyboards, multi-monitors, copious USB ports, higher-res screens, etc. I don't believe it's as if there is a technological limitation that prevents some of these features from appearing in laptops. It's just the limitations of the current laptop form factor that don't permit them.

Then we must have a misunderstanding. I thought this thread was a broad thread to talk about anything related to desktops vs. laptops. Price and performance are major issues that effect peoples decisions, why can't we bring that topic into the discussion?

[Squall Leonhart]

(04-27-2012, 08:50 AM)zurginator Wrote: No, you can't put a sound card in a laptop, nor run surround sound.

Yes you can

Quote:You CAN have 12 gigs of ram in a laptop

not really. theres no combination of ddr you could use to total 12GB in a laptop (where you're keeping the capacity the same)

there are no triple channel laptops at present.