Kernel Times

[MayImilae]

Quote:>very powerful
>logitech

Excuse me while I go laugh uncontrollably in the corner for awhile.

Heh, I guess I deserved that. Logitech does make pretty bleh speakers as of late. But this one is different. It was made during a time when Logitech was trying to prove itself against it's rivals, who were hitting them because they were too cheap. I mean, REALLY cheap back then. Remember those white things? Ugh. So they went all in for a few years to boost their image. It worked, and well, they went right back to cheapness. But those Logitech speakers in that period were pretty good. It has 200watts of continuous power, very good signal to noise ratios, on and on. You can see the specs here if you haven't already. These speakers kick ass. Granted it's not going to fill an opera house, but it's overkill for my room.

Quote:Here is what I need from you. An excruciatingly detailed description of your entire audio system. Every single hardware device starting from your PC and all of the connections (cables and standards) used between them. Also a description of the room would be nice.

Alright. Pretty simple really. The Wii (composite to "headphone" adapter) is plugged into the Line in on my computer. The computer powers the speakers. That's it. . My computer does everything, so I don't have much need for complexity. Movies? Computer. Gaming? Computer. Music? Computer. You get the idea. I could get a receiver, but it would just be an expensive intermediary to go from the computer to the speakers, with nothing else beside the wii going into it. The room is, if I remember correctly, 10 feet by 14 feet, with an 8 foot ceiling. The floor is carpeted, the ceiling is made of styrofoam (I know right), the walls are textured, and curtains are over the windows. Acoustics are pretty good in here. The room is mostly empty; there is only my computer and it's desk, my laptop and it's mini desk, a twin bed, another desk that I use for computer repair, and a dresser. That little furniture in that big a room means it's very open, with a large amount of floor space (as I like it). Walls are mostly bare. My computer is slightly off center on the far wall. The satellite speakers are on the far ends of my computer desk (maximizing stereo effect of course), which is an open style desk, basically just a 4ft wide slab with two legs to prop it up. The legs are metal, with holes. The subwoofer is placed underneath the desk for a boost in acoustics, sorta like a second cabinet (and an excellent foot rest). Is that enough information for you, or do you want me to make a diagram in photoshop?

Quote:

Quote:No Tweeters

Oh wow. That's an.....interesting design choice.

Yea, I was surprised to learn that. The satellites have a hole on the face of them that I thought was for tweeters, but the page I linked to took them apart, and it's just the one speaker per satellite. Those holes don't seem to go anywhere lol. Oh well.

Quote:That's all you needed it for? You realize that their are plenty of 3rd party applications out there for this right?

You could go so much farther than this.

I never found a 3rd party application that was decent. Feel free to suggest some. So, farther than this eh? What do you suggest?

[NaturalViolence]

Quote:Yea, I was surprised to learn that. The satellites have a hole on the face of them that I thought was for tweeters, but the page I linked to took them apart, and it's just the one speaker per satellite. Those holes don't seem to go anywhere lol. Oh well.

Those "holes" are called ports. They boost low frequency response by allowing more air in/out. You'll notice that nearly all subwoofers have them.

Anyways I have to go get some sleep. I skimmed the rest of your post and I'll read it more thoroughly and respond to it tomorrow (assuming that I remember of course).

If you make a response to this that will help remind me since it will be marked as an unread thread to me.

[MayImilae]

Satellites, not the sub. The sub has a real port for more airflow. But the satellites? The holes above the speakers literally go nowhere. They are capped at the ends even.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/131d1919c5.jpg
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7f3b87f677.jpg

[NaturalViolence]

Quote: The holes above the speakers literally go nowhere. They are capped at the ends even.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/131d1919c5.jpg
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/7f3b87f677.jpg

So they're just for show because people are so used to seeing tweeters along side woofers. Jesus that's stupid marketing at its finest.

Quote:I never found a 3rd party application that was decent. Feel free to suggest some. So, farther than this eh? What do you suggest?

I've never really looked for/tryed any since my hardware and drivers have always had built in equalizers. Pretty much every audio device has one built in these days.

Quote:Alright. Pretty simple really. The Wii (composite to "headphone" adapter) is plugged into the Line in on my computer.

I'm sorry to do this but it bugs me since I have OCD like behavior when it comes to technical terminology. The common/proper terms are:
composite = RCA
headphone = trs 3.5mm (or 1/8")

Quote:The computer powers the speakers. That's it. Tongue.

Once again, I know what you meant but I object to using the term "powers". Your computer is connected to your speakers but the speakers are powered by an amp hidden inside the subwoofer.

Quote:My computer does everything, so I don't have much need for complexity. Movies? Computer. Gaming? Computer. Music? Computer. You get the idea.

I've always been the same way.

Quote:I could get a receiver, but it would just be an expensive intermediary to go from the computer to the speakers, with nothing else beside the wii going into it.

Yeah I can understand your reasoning for that. A receiver is basically an external audio card (DSP + DAC + ADC), external preamp, external switchboard, and external speaker amp all in one box. You only really need the first set of hardware in your setup. But if you ever decide to get good speakers (no offense) it's more convenient to buy a receiver than an audio card + standalone speaker amp.

Quote:The room is, if I remember correctly, 10 feet by 14 feet, with an 8 foot ceiling.

Good dimensions both in terms of size and shape.

Quote:The floor is carpeted,

Also acoustically good.

Quote:the ceiling is made of styrofoam (I know right),

That's rather uncommon. I don't know how that would perform acoustically but the room size/dimensions will likely make it negligible.

Quote: the walls are textured,

Drywall correct?

Quote: and curtains are over the windows.

Also good.

Quote: Acoustics are pretty good in here. The room is mostly empty; there is only my computer and it's desk, my laptop and it's mini desk, a twin bed, another desk that I use for computer repair, and a dresser. That little furniture in that big a room means it's very open, with a large amount of floor space (as I like it). Walls are mostly bare. My computer is slightly off center on the far wall. The satellite speakers are on the far ends of my computer desk (maximizing stereo effect of course), which is an open style desk, basically just a 4ft wide slab with two legs to prop it up. The legs are metal, with holes. The subwoofer is placed underneath the desk for a boost in acoustics, sorta like a second cabinet (and an excellent foot rest). Is that enough information for you, or do you want me to make a diagram in photoshop

Good, all good. Your room is very good acoustically and I have no doubt that that's why your speakers are performing surprisingly well in that environment. Even so you would stand to gain massive improvement if you upgraded them.

Quote:Heh, I guess I deserved that. Logitech does make pretty bleh speakers as of late. But this one is different. It was made during a time when Logitech was trying to prove itself against it's rivals, who were hitting them because they were too cheap. I mean, REALLY cheap back then. Remember those white things? Ugh. So they went all in for a few years to boost their image. It worked, and well, they went right back to cheapness. But those Logitech speakers in that period were pretty good.

This is all subjective at best. Logitech has never made an objectively good speaker. Decent stereo setups are supposed to cost at least $300 without a subwoofer and at least $600 with a subwoofer. Anything below that is going to have crappy specs no matter what you do (unless you bought it used). Even logitechs higher budget offerings have poor performance compared to competitors. They get away with it because your average PC user's standards for audio aren't very high.

I know that you don't want to hear any of this and that people hate to have their hardware ridiculed but I can tell just by looking at those that they're crap. You cannot make a speaker that small perform on par with even an average bookshelf speaker.

Quote:It has 200watts of continuous power,

Unless that's for the satellites that's not a lot. Most of that is probably for the subwoofer.

Quote: very good signal to noise ratios, on and on.

At what frequency range? At what volume level?

Companies today are really good at "tweaking" their specs to make their products look better than they really are. Which has made it ever more difficult for us to judge the quality of the product without using appearance and/or review sites.

The best way to objectively judge the quality of a speaker is to look at the frequency response curve at different volume levels. And for small "PC speaker kits" like those they tend to suck.

Quote:You can see the specs here if you haven't already. These speakers kick ass. Granted it's not going to fill an opera house, but it's overkill for my room.

I'm willing to bet that that's only because you have good room acoustics and you've never used good high budget speakers before. Trust me having high end bookshelf speakers will make a world of difference.

Anyways regardless of whether you decide to upgrade your speakers you should decide on a budget for an audio card and get something with a good DAC, ADC, and opamps. I can give you some recommendations once you give me a budget. Also tell me what OS you plan to use.

[MayImilae]

Quote:I know that you don't want to hear any of this and that people hate to have their hardware ridiculed but I can tell just by looking at those that they're crap. You cannot make a speaker that small perform on par with even an average bookshelf speaker.

Quote:I'm willing to bet that that's only because you have good room acoustics and you've never used good high budget speakers before. Trust me having high end bookshelf speakers will make a world of difference.

Fair enough. I still say that they are surprisingly good, but I have never been under the illusion that they compete with audiophile level gear. I just don't have $600 to throw at speakers. Still, what kind of difference would it make? I don't blast (sensitive ears), so all I really want is high quality audio reproduction. Would expensive speakers make a difference, even at volumes of, say, the point where it becomes impossible to talk over without raising your voice from a distance of 7-8ft? (hard to communicate volumes without a meter...)

Quote:The best way to objectively judge the quality of a speaker is to look at the frequency response curve at different volume levels. And for small "PC speaker kits" like those they tend to suck.

You mean like this? http://www.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/c8e9f1059e.jpg

I already gave you every spec you could ever want. You just had to click the link . So, how is it?

Quote:Anyways regardless of whether you decide to upgrade your speakers you should decide on a budget for an audio card and get something with a good DAC, ADC, and opamps. I can give you some recommendations once you give me a budget. Also tell me what OS you plan to use.

Hmm, lower price is better, obviously, but I definitely want something that is hardware, not software. I'm sick of sound sucking CPU cycles. I would say I am willing to spend anything up to $100-$150 USD. Any higher than that and it's getting into ludicrous territory. But I want something that is good and will last a very long time (as long as can be predicted with computers anyway...), I don't want to have to spend this again if I can. As for the OS, Windows 7 x64.