Is Dolphin dropping DX12 in favor of Vulkan?

[Isaboll1]

(05-20-2017, 12:57 PM)GreenT Wrote: This discussion prompted me to play around with different backends to see if there were any reasons (other than performance) why I couldn't switch to OpenGL, DX11 or Vulkan. Unfortunately I discovered another problem with every backend except DX12.

In TLOZ Skyward Sword, DX12 is the only backend that renders changing/panning background objects without tearing. (Not sure if I'm using the correct term to describe what I'm seeing, but I think it's called tearing.)

Going to look for the very last development build that still has DX12 support -- I'll have to use it at least until I'm done with my Skyward Sword playthrough.

From what you're describing, that sounds more like a vsync thing than anything backend related (in my opinion). was vsync on? did you also try with borderless fullscreen on for the other backends?

[GreenT]

(05-21-2017, 12:23 PM)Isaboll1 Wrote: From what you're describing, that sounds more like a vsync thing than anything backend related (in my opinion). was vsync on? did you also try with borderless fullscreen on for the other backends?

It's definitely backend-related, as the behavior changes depending on the backend in use, with all other factors equal. Yes, I tested with the same settings on all four backends (borderless fullscreen included). OpenGL, DX11 and Vulkan had tearing in varying degrees of severity. DX12 had none.

I can list my preferred settings here if others would like to try to reproduce the behavior, but i don't have a capture card, so can't show what I'm talking about.  

[Wabe]

(05-20-2017, 03:26 AM)GreenT Wrote: While I understand why the devs want to remove DX12, it's currently the best backend for me -- both in terms of performance and compatibility. I tried Vulkan and had a few games that just presented a blank black screen. I could hear the game audio but couldn't see anything. Also DX12 gives me the best performance when I want to turn on SSAA.

I too have found the DX12 backend by far the best.

In all others (including Vulcan) the framerate dropped drastically at various times and that went away completely when DX12 arrived. Dolphin just felt 100% solid with it.

So for me it's a shame, but if there are no devs who want to support it then that's that.

Thank you to anyone who worked on the backend up to this point. I'll probably continue using it by sticking with the last release that included it.

[Shuik]

(05-21-2017, 11:32 PM)Wabe Wrote: I too have found the DX12 backend by far the best.

In all others (including Vulcan) the framerate dropped drastically at various times and that went away completely when DX12 arrived. Dolphin just felt 100% solid with it.

So for me it's a shame, but if there are no devs who want to support it then that's that.

Thank you to anyone who worked on the backend up to this point. I'll probably continue using it by sticking with the last release that included it.

I FEEL SO SAD MY GRAPHICS CARD ONLY ONLY SUPPORTS DX11 AND OPENGL ;(

[Shuik]

(05-21-2017, 11:46 PM)Shuik Wrote: I FEEL SO SAD MY GRAPHICS CARD ONLY ONLY SUPPORTS DX11 AND OPENGL ;(

But back when my graphics were the cruddy integrated intel graphics, I was able to use DX12, and DX12 had the highest framerates. Vulkan just gives me a black screen. So for now I just use OpenGL.
By the time I get a new graphics card (my birthday is in 2 months) the devs had probably taken away DX12 forever. RIP DX 12.

[magmarock64]

(05-21-2017, 11:32 PM)Wabe Wrote: I too have found the DX12 backend by far the best.

In all others (including Vulcan) the framerate dropped drastically at various times and that went away completely when DX12 arrived. Dolphin just felt 100% solid with it.

So for me it's a shame, but if there are no devs who want to support it then that's that.

Thank you to anyone who worked on the backend up to this point. I'll probably continue using it by sticking with the last release that included it.

What game and settings was this. I'd like test this.

[andreol263]

I only have a Intel HD 4600 at the moment and DX12 is by FAR the best API, solves the slowdown in desert tracks on F zero GX, solves the high use of the iGPU, and makes some games like Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess run at 30 fps STABLE and many more.
Hell, after i heard that it's gonna be droped, i installed Ubuntu on dual-boot, to try to install the MESA drivers with Vulkan support on Haswell, but i can't get it working in any way, someone know how to install this driver?

[GreenT]

(05-21-2017, 12:23 PM)Isaboll1 Wrote: From what you're describing, that sounds more like a vsync thing than anything backend related (in my opinion). was vsync on? did you also try with borderless fullscreen on for the other backends?

Okay, your comment about V-Sync made me wonder if I was missing something in the GUI, and I was. The V-Sync button itself.

After enabling V-Sync, I was able to play Skyward Sword without tearing with every backend, not just DX12. With the V-Sync button UNchecked, the tearing returns with every backend except DX12.

I also found that I was able to run Skyward Sword at higher resolutions with DX12 than other backends, or with more optional enhancements enabled. (For example, at higher resolutions I couldn't run SSAA on most backends, but DX12 let me run 2X SSAA.)

So the lack of DX12 isn't quite as dire as I thought, since I can run Skyward Sword without tearing. But it will be missed for its performance advantage over other backends.

[magmarock64]

(05-23-2017, 10:27 AM)andreol263 Wrote: I only have a Intel HD 4600 at the moment and DX12 is by FAR the best API, solves the slowdown in desert tracks on F zero GX, solves the high use of the iGPU, and makes some games like Legend of Zelda Twilight Princess run at 30 fps STABLE and many more.
Hell, after i heard that it's gonna be droped, i installed Ubuntu on dual-boot, to try to install the MESA drivers with Vulkan support on Haswell, but i can't get it working in any way, someone know how to install this driver?

No need to test. I remember reading on how Intel HD graphics works better with DX12. Until you get a video card I'd suggest sticking with builds using DX12. I don't think it should be removed from the system but defiantly labeled (unsupported or something) you never know when a backend might become useful.

[Jabatka Patka]

As many already wrote, DX12 for me too was most reliable API, because it was most stable (from day one was working without any glitches) and in highest performance (most fps with highest resolution). Also, because I'm using nvidia card with fast sync on, i forgot about screen tearing when technology was adopted for my previous card GTX960. Vulkan always glitchy, in one build works, in other don't. As for performance fps starts drop in (7~8)x internal resolution and higher in vulkan, but dx12 goes up to 9x resolution and just than fps drops. That's just few cases of games i played, for others I don't no. Thanks to developers that they decide still to maintain DX11, because of that fast sync still works. I rather enable vulkan instead of DX11 because it just feel smother (in dx11 stuttering happens for me), but the screen tearing is unbearable, and no simple vsync isn't good because of input lag. I understand it's burden to maintain DX12 when there isn't anyone who's dedicated for that and it would be additional work load for you when you have, other, more important tasks at hand, but from my matter of perspective this was still a dick move to discard working, usable and the best (at least for me - definitely) API. If nvidia could make fast sync analog for vulkan that would be fantastic, but that's hardly happening. I think I have higher chance of dreaming about DX12 backing to dolphin.