how nvidia is gonna fight this???

[hakunushi]

if u wanna speed u buy nvidia
if u wanna nice physics u buy nvidia
if u wanna encode videos u buy nvidia

if u don have money and don care for fps and loves crapy drivers u buy ATI =P

ah, but even tho i don have that much money i still got a nice nvidia card, its enough for me and have all features i love

[NaturalViolence]

I would like to take this oppurtunity to correct many false statements in this thread.

-ATI will not have a 5900 series, where on earth did you get that from? They already posted their roadmap for the next year you can look it up online. Expect the 5870X2 in a month (it's listed as late Q4 2009), the 5670 and 5650 are coming in Q1 2010 and the 5550 and 5450 are coming in Q2 2010.

Quote:NVidia is already fighting this.
* Showing 'Fermi' specifications when they barely have something in paper
* Disabling CUDA when a secondary ATI video card is detected
* Saying 'Fermi' chip would be able to run a OS
* Saying GPGPU will help fight breast cancer
* Saying DX11 games will start showing up in 12 months
* Saying CUDA will increase antiviruses' scanning speed
* Sending some speaker to talk about and hold a fake GT300 card in his hand

*they already have a working GPU have already taped out the A1 silicon, they just don't have it on a cideo card board yet, how can possible say they barely have something on paper? They designed the architecture years ago, they have already demoed it for gods sakes!
*Your thinking of physx not cuda, and who the h*ll uses both an ATI and nvidia gpu at the same time?
*Not even going to comment on that
*....wtf are you talking about? It already does. Regardless of whether you have an ATI card or an nvidia card their are a variety of organizations out their doing gpu based folding with gpgpu for cancer research, many of them are large scale
*Not true, battleforge will be the first dx11 game with a patch next month. But then again they never said that and nvidia is coming out with it's GTX380/360/395 cards in mid december (they continue to both tell us they are sitll on track for that date and continue to prove it since they already started taping the silicon) based on fermi and that supports dx11
*It can, you'de have to be an idiot to think otherwise. Antivirus scans are heavily bottlenecked by CPU's, using GPGPU would speed up scans exponentially, to the point where the HDD became the bottleneck.
*My god man, "some speaker", how much hate do you have? What would you have them do? Not send speakers to talk about upcoming technology? Stay out of the spotlight for all eternity? Not to mention they admitted it wasn't a real fermi video card 2 hours after that conference. That doesn't mean the GPU isn't real, it's just on a gigantic board at the moment.

For all of you who doubt nvidia will ever bounce back (yes even as an nvidia fanboy I admit that ATI has been kicking their ass the last year) please go read the fermi whitepages. And understand that fermi is not just for professional purposes, it is going to be used for 300 series as well. It's just the reverse. For as long as I can remember nvidia has done the standard process of creating a new geforce architecture then binning it differently to create a quadro card. Fermi is the reverse, they created a tesla architecture and are going to binn it differently to create their next geforce series. Quadro and geforce cards use the same architecture they are just binned differently, geforce cards have some of the programmability features locked for performance reasons and are not given as much video memory, they also have a different firmware and use different drivers, but on a hardware level they are virtually the same.

In the meantime I will respect any person with an ATI card due to the better thermal efficiency, smaller boards, dx10.1/11 support, energy efficiency, DDR5 video ram, lower prices, eyefinity, better after market cooling support, and higher shading throughput. But anyone who acts like they are better than me automatically just because they use an ATI card is going to get a serious flame response from me. They are different, not better. Why would you want ATI to completely destroy nvidia? Balance is good. If we have only 1 strong contender than video card prices will become super high and innovation and progression will nearly slow to a halt. Remember that nvidia still has cuda, better linux support, mac support (you can run a hackintosh with an nvidia card), stereoscopic and colorscopic, ambient occlusion, physx, higher bitwidth, a better control panel, game profiles, and overall better drivers. They also had better multimonitor support before eyefinity came around. Overall nvidia tends to have better software while ATI tends to have better hardware, it's been this way for almost as long as I can remember. I am afraid this post is going to end up being so long that the forum won;t let me post it so I'll save the rest for later.

[jedikevin20]

I concur NaturalViolence. Def saving this for any random friend who wants to talk about nvidia and ati. You stated everything I've had in my head. Love this post and welcome to the dolphin forum.

[NaturalViolence]

Lol, thanks for the warm welcome . I went a bit crazy their for a bit. Normally I wouldn't post something so long but when I saw one particular anti-nvidia post (the one I quoted) I went a bit nuts. Their seems to be a couple of things that contribute to this common train of thought that one brand HAS to be superior to another when their are only two contenders.

1. Human nature. Since we can only choose one of the two options presented to us our psychology kicks in and automatically reinforces whichever choice we made to the point where we become almost irrational about it, automatically attacking anything that goes against our believe that our choice was "better". It's in our nature to do this and almost completely unavoidable. It's the same reason that it's difficult to convince anyone on any issues that they were wrong about something, once people make up their mind it is damn hard to change it. And when you make a product decision where you can't get both sides then you've made up your mind about it whether you realize it or not.

2. Wow, I already forgot the other 2 of the 3 reasons I had thought of. Probably because it's 2 a.m, I'm slightly drunk, and I haven't slept in over 36 hours. I'll come back and repost them when they come to me. I'm surprised my spelling hasn't become horrendous yet.

Edit:
2. Ok before I forget. Reason 2 is lack of information. I feel that most people posting about issues like these understand very little about what a GPU is and how it works. For example, when trying to figure out "how fast" a GPU is, it's not really as simple as it looks. People see that ATI GPU's have DDR5 and think "OMG it must be faster than nvidia's video memory!". These people, which sadly are the majority, have no idea what bitwidth is if you ask them. DDR5 simple makes it easier to achieve a higher memory clock rate since you have more memory controllers. But the other factor you need to look at is bitwidth. Essentially, to put it in simple terms, bitwidth is how "wide" the traffic in a memory channel is while memory clock rate is how "fast" the traffic is going. If you have two highways, one with 8 lanes and a speed limit of 35 mp/h and another with 4 lanes and a speed limit of 70 mp/h both highways can move the same number of cars across in the same amount of time, the simple do it a different way. That's what the main difference is between them. People also never take into account instruction level parallelism. You can't just multiple the shader clock rate by the number of SP's to get the total shader throughput, you also have to take instruction level parallelism into account, which is extremely difficult to do since so little information is available on this. As a general approximation take your total and multiple it by 2 if it's an ATI card and multiple it by 3 if it's an nvidia card, this won't give you the exact amount but should give you a pretty close general approximation in most cases, you can never get the throughput down to an exact amount, just not enough info available. Most people also don't seem to realize exactly what video memory does or understand that nvidia has two seperate clock rates while ATI has one clock rate for almost everything. I read an article a couple months back on toms hardware entitled "ATI is first to break the 1 GHz barrier!". This prompted me to laugh for awhile and then grow angry that such a massive source of news for so many people could get something so simple so wrong. They of course where talking about how an overclocked 4890 was the first GPU to break 1 GHz. They even said that it was the first GPU to break 1 GHz SP clock rate. Nvidia has a separate higher clock rate for SP's called the shader clock, and with that taken into account you will realize that nvidia broke the 1 GHz barrier with their 7 series GPU's. But this is what I mean, lack of information certainly contributes. And then of course their is the "more video memory means faster!" thought process that I see so commonly. To the point where the only question people ask in stores like tigerdirect and best buy seem to be "how much video memory?". Let me put it this way, to use an example, most games currently do not use more than about 600MB of video memory under absolute max settings, including maximum texture resolutions and filtering, maximum screen resolution (usually 2560 x 1600), and maximum anti-aliasing. Yet both ATI and nvidia card buyers seem to get the impression that going from 1 GB to 2 GB of video memory is going to make their games run twice as fast, well guess what, extra video memory is useless if the game doesn't use it.

3. I know this originally wasn't the third reason I had though of, hopefully I will remember it later, so their are now 4 reasons. Peer pressure. Notice that whenever a lot of people start to buy a particular brand the people who haven't switched over yet start to naturally assume it's better. Right now if you were to ask around in most forums which brand to pick 9 out of 10 at least would say ATI and you would be surrounded by loads of ATI users that makes it seem like everyone on the planet is using one. If you remember this was the reverse when the HD2000 series was battling the geforce 8 series. Lots of people were switching to nvidia so it prompted the newcomers to start off with nvidia. And once you start using a certain brand from the beginning it becomes hard to switch since you get "married" to that brand as I stated above.

4. Ah, now I remember my original third reason. Lack of history and background. Many of the people slinging mud at nvidia are either newcomers or people who have forgotten "the old days". Saying that statement still makes me laugh since of course geforce only started 10 years ago. Anyone who has been involved in this for many years SHOULD realize the obvious patterns between market dominance and prices as well as fanboyism and popularity. They should remember that this has been going on for over 10 years and little has changed, both brands go through cycles of dominance and recession. Which is why I am confident nvidia will bounce back at some point, whether it's soon or not. Remember the 700 series from radeon versus the FX series from nvidia? Nvidia was "finished for sure". Everyone was saying that and I just stood and laughed at them. "OMG it's 256 bit and ddr2!". Quite frankly ATI had wwwaaayyyy more of an advantage against nvidia back then then they do now. And what happened? They eventually bounced back. I think I managed to fit nearly everything I left out of my first post into this one . Shouldn't have much more to say......hopefully. I had a hell of a time the other day explaining to one of my friends that AMD owns ATI, telling him that when he bought an ATI video card he was supporting AMD, he didn;t seem to understand the difference between being the same company and owning a company.

[Kein]

(10-15-2009, 06:00 PM)manaurys Wrote: Radeon HD 5000 series
the new DX11 cards from ati just for 139.99 the are some even lower at 129.99 waaaaaaaaaaaaooooooo heres the link at Newegg.com see it yourself
XFX HD-575X-ZNFC Radeon HD 5750 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail

Quote:how nvidia is gonna fight this???

By releasing Nvidia GeForce GTX300.
Overkill.
End of story.

P.S. ATI always sucked ass, suck it atm and will suck it further.

[abfab126]

(10-28-2009, 12:35 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: I would like to take this oppurtunity to correct many false statements in this thread.

-ATI will not have a 5900 series, where on earth did you get that from? They already posted their roadmap for the next year you can look it up online. Expect the 5870X2 in a month (it's listed as late Q4 2009), the 5670 and 5650 are coming in Q1 2010 and the 5550 and 5450 are coming in Q2 2010.

Quote:NVidia is already fighting this.
* Showing 'Fermi' specifications when they barely have something in paper
* Disabling CUDA when a secondary ATI video card is detected
* Saying 'Fermi' chip would be able to run a OS
* Saying GPGPU will help fight breast cancer
* Saying DX11 games will start showing up in 12 months
* Saying CUDA will increase antiviruses' scanning speed
* Sending some speaker to talk about and hold a fake GT300 card in his hand

*they already have a working GPU have already taped out the A1 silicon, they just don't have it on a cideo card board yet, how can possible say they barely have something on paper? They designed the architecture years ago, they have already demoed it for gods sakes!
*Your thinking of physx not cuda, and who the h*ll uses both an ATI and nvidia gpu at the same time?
*Not even going to comment on that
*....wtf are you talking about? It already does. Regardless of whether you have an ATI card or an nvidia card their are a variety of organizations out their doing gpu based folding with gpgpu for cancer research, many of them are large scale
*Not true, battleforge will be the first dx11 game with a patch next month. But then again they never said that and nvidia is coming out with it's GTX380/360/395 cards in mid december (they continue to both tell us they are sitll on track for that date and continue to prove it since they already started taping the silicon) based on fermi and that supports dx11
*It can, you'de have to be an idiot to think otherwise. Antivirus scans are heavily bottlenecked by CPU's, using GPGPU would speed up scans exponentially, to the point where the HDD became the bottleneck.
*My god man, "some speaker", how much hate do you have? What would you have them do? Not send speakers to talk about upcoming technology? Stay out of the spotlight for all eternity? Not to mention they admitted it wasn't a real fermi video card 2 hours after that conference. That doesn't mean the GPU isn't real, it's just on a gigantic board at the moment.

For all of you who doubt nvidia will ever bounce back (yes even as an nvidia fanboy I admit that ATI has been kicking their ass the last year) please go read the fermi whitepages. And understand that fermi is not just for professional purposes, it is going to be used for 300 series as well. It's just the reverse. For as long as I can remember nvidia has done the standard process of creating a new geforce architecture then binning it differently to create a quadro card. Fermi is the reverse, they created a tesla architecture and are going to binn it differently to create their next geforce series. Quadro and geforce cards use the same architecture they are just binned differently, geforce cards have some of the programmability features locked for performance reasons and are not given as much video memory, they also have a different firmware and use different drivers, but on a hardware level they are virtually the same.

In the meantime I will respect any person with an ATI card due to the better thermal efficiency, smaller boards, dx10.1/11 support, energy efficiency, DDR5 video ram, lower prices, eyefinity, better after market cooling support, and higher shading throughput. But anyone who acts like they are better than me automatically just because they use an ATI card is going to get a serious flame response from me. They are different, not better. Why would you want ATI to completely destroy nvidia? Balance is good. If we have only 1 strong contender than video card prices will become super high and innovation and progression will nearly slow to a halt. Remember that nvidia still has cuda, better linux support, mac support (you can run a hackintosh with an nvidia card), stereoscopic and colorscopic, ambient occlusion, physx, higher bitwidth, a better control panel, game profiles, and overall better drivers. They also had better multimonitor support before eyefinity came around. Overall nvidia tends to have better software while ATI tends to have better hardware, it's been this way for almost as long as I can remember. I am afraid this post is going to end up being so long that the forum won;t let me post it so I'll save the rest for later.

Once again 5950 and 5970 ARE a reality ,it is actually what should have been called 5850x2 and 5870x2 , the 59xx series (cypress) is coming soon !
Plus , it is already in the actual driver .inf ^^

"ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series" = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68B8
"ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68B9
"ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68BE
"ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series" = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_6898
"ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_6899
"ATI Radeon HD 5900 Series" = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_689C
"ATI Radeon HD 5900 Series " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_689D
"EG CEDAR" = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68E8
"EG CEDAR " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68E9
"EG CEDAR " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68F8
"EG CEDAR " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68F9
"EG CEDAR " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68FE
"EG REDWOOD" = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68C8
"EG REDWOOD " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68C9
"EG REDWOOD " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68D8
"EG REDWOOD " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68D9
"EG REDWOOD " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68DE


Cheers and Welcome nvidiot ! (I ve never seen someone in here being that self confident on the forum after only 4 posts oh and very arrogant too ...very annoying... to read too^^)

[shuffle2]

GPU-Z doesn't read much data from the card itself. It just looks up the model and uses predefined information. So you shouldn't use it as a source of facts for cards which aren't even released yet.

Also, screw ati. that is all :p

[CacoFFF]

I got a victim , although it took way too long.
Welcome to the forums anyways.

[NaturalViolence]

(10-29-2009, 01:57 AM)abfab126 Wrote: Once again 5950 and 5970 ARE a reality ,it is actually what should have been called 5850x2 and 5870x2 , the 59xx series (cypress) is coming soon !
Plus , it is already in the actual driver .inf ^^

"ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series" = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68B8
"ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68B9
"ATI Radeon HD 5700 Series " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68BE
"ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series" = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_6898
"ATI Radeon HD 5800 Series " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_6899
"ATI Radeon HD 5900 Series" = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_689C
"ATI Radeon HD 5900 Series " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_689D
"EG CEDAR" = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68E8
"EG CEDAR " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68E9
"EG CEDAR " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68F8
"EG CEDAR " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68F9
"EG CEDAR " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68FE
"EG REDWOOD" = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68C8
"EG REDWOOD " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68C9
"EG REDWOOD " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68D8
"EG REDWOOD " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68D9
"EG REDWOOD " = ati2mtag_Evergreen, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_68DE


Cheers and Welcome nvidiot ! (I ve never seen someone in here being that self confident on the forum after only 4 posts oh and very arrogant too ...very annoying... to read too^^)

Interesting, where did you get that? I remember when ATI held some kind of a press conference, or maybe it was CES09 I don't remember, when they unveiled an image of their road map for the next year it definitely said 5870x2 instead of 5970, they must have changed the name recently. Tomshardware and anandtech also show it as 5870x2 in the roadmap. Oh well, still the same video card just a different name. And thanks for the warm welcome! Are you always this bright and cheery with everyone who disagrees with you? Although I don't think I really did since I basically said neither ati or nvidia is superior, just different. How does this make me an nvidiot exactly? And I'm so sorry for being self confident, I will really try harder next time to state that I have no idea what I'm talking about and am just spewing bs for fun. You'll find that it's quite rare in this world to find people who aren't self confident about their own opinions. I really do still think that anyone who thinks nvidia is just going to magically disappear hasn't been around long enough to have seen them get through worse. If ATI does destroy them I will be very sad, because then we will have a super monopoly. And I don't see how anyone can possible be for that.

[Diddy Kong]

Ati is no match..

What is the point of fighting a battle that is inevitably won?
Even after, Ati recently picked up their pace, Nvidia is ultimately still in the lead. Rationalize this: Let all the poor suckers freeload off ati's products. (Which btw only demenans their expectations) if you really wanted a bang for the buck, you'd be smart enough to head in nvidia's direction. Physx, CUDA... Who could possibly argue with that logic?? So i beg to differ on all of the hardcore ati fanboys