Higher Resolution vs AA

[driedupfish]

It seems like I can't have both 4x IR and 4x SSAA enable or else fps drops too much. Now, my question is, which do you think is better:

lower to 3x IR and 4x SSAA

or

4x IR and no AA

I honestly can't tell the difference graphically. Just want some opinions. Also, which is more demanding? Enabling 4x SSAA or upping 3x IR to 4x.

Currently using 3.5 stable release.

Thanks

[RachelB]

3x IR, and AA is way better.

AA is more demanding.

[admin89]

Quote:I can't have both 4x IR and 4x SSAA

You would not be able to use it without slowdown even if you had GTX 660Ti
SSAA (Direct3D9) is more demanding than MSAA(Direct3D11) but in term of speed : D3D9 > D3D11 > OpenGL
You can try D3D11 4xIR + 2xMSAA

[driedupfish]

(03-09-2013, 02:42 PM)RachelB Wrote: 3x IR, and AA is way better.

AA is more demanding.

Do you mean better graphically with AA enabled? Doesn't increasing the internal resolution makes the texture crispier, and thus less jaggy? Which is the same as enforcing AA?

Do you recommend force AA through drivers instead?

[admin89]

Quote:Do you recommend force AA through drivers instead?

FXAA injector tool is recommened .
Ah never mind , it only work with Dolphin 32bit build

[driedupfish]

(03-09-2013, 02:59 PM)admin89 Wrote:

Quote:I can't have both 4x IR and 4x SSAA

You would not be able to use it without slowdown even if you had GTX 660Ti
SSAA (Direct3D9) is more demanding than MSAA(Direct3D11) but in term of speed : D3D9 > D3D11 > OpenGL
You can try D3D11 4xIR + 2xMSAA

Well, I might be getting the HD 7950, which when overclocked, beats an OC 660ti. Or I might get the 670.

Anyways, any chance the D3D9 will have 2x SSAA?

[RachelB]

(03-09-2013, 03:00 PM)driedupfish Wrote:

(03-09-2013, 02:42 PM)RachelB Wrote: 3x IR, and AA is way better.

AA is more demanding.

Do you mean better graphically with AA enabled? Doesn't increasing the internal resolution makes the texture crispier, and thus less jaggy? Which is the same as enforcing AA?

Do you recommend force AA through drivers instead?

Yes, i do. Increasing IR does have an AA effect, but it's not nearly as effective as just using AA. Once you get past 2-3x IR, it doesn't really help in that regards. Without AA, you'll still see jaggies at 15x IR.

[NaturalViolence]

Both IR and SSAA raise the actual IR. They are both equally demanding if the same IR is reached.

The IR setting represents the scale applied to each axis. You can calculate the effect on total resolution by squaring it. So for example a 2x IR settings gives you 4x IR (2^2 = 4). Setting IR to 3x gives you 9x the IR (3^2 = 9). SSAA also increases the IR but the SSAA settings represent the total increase in resolution. So 4x SSAA actually increases your IR by 4x. To get your total IR you simple multiply the square of your IR setting by the number of SSAA samples (use 1 if SSAA is disabled).

So:
4x IR ((4^2) x 1) = 16x
3x IR + 4xSSAA ((3^2) x 4) = 36x

As you can see 3x IR + 4xSSAA is a lot more demanding. Not because SSAA is inherently more demanding but because the total IR is higher with this particular combination.

See how confusing this is? The IR setting was originally called "efb scale" which was a much better description of what it does but people were confused by that term so they changed it to "internal resolution". However settings the "internal resolution" to 2x doesn't double the IR, it quadruples it. Which is why I still think that it should either be renamed back to efb scale or the option strings should be renamed to reflect the increase in IR rather than the scale applied to each axis.

2xSSAA will not be added because 2 is not a perfect square. Therefore it would require either only scaling one axis or using a fractional scale. While this is possible it would not be very effective with a standard box or bilinear filter.

If SSAA was done properly in dolphin RachelB's statement would be correct. This is because SSAA like all forms of AA is supposed to use a filter that is specifically designed to eliminate aliasing. However in our case it doesn't. Ever since neobrain broke it using no SSAA or 4x SSAA results in the exact same filter being used, the only difference is the IR. Since I know RachelB will want confirmation of this here is the relevant code:
https://code.google.com/p/dolphin-emu/source/browse/Source/Plugins/Plugin_VideoDX9/Src/PixelShaderCache.cpp#185

In other words 4xSSAA has exactly the same effect as doubling your IR setting. The 9xSSAA setting however does have its own filter and it is quite effective at eliminating aliasing. Unfortunately the IR increase it produces will obliterate your performance even on the strongest graphics cards when using a high IR setting. However if you don't use a high IR settings with 9xSSAA the filter will produce an extremely blurry image. So as a result I don't recommend using it.

You can force proper SSAA through nvidia inspector (requires an nvidia card) if you know what you're doing but it comes with a nasty performance hit usually hovering around 15-20% even with a strong graphics card. I have no idea if CCCs built in SSAA works with dolphin but I really doubt it since you have to change the compatibility bits in nvidia inspector to get SSAA working there.

Raising dolphins IR whether you do it through the SSAA setting or the IR settings reduces aliasing and sharpens textures. The level of improvement you see from increasing it drops significantly once the actual IR passes your screen resolution but there is still improvement. It's not a perfect solution so like RachelB said without driver forced AA you will still see some aliasing at crazy high IR scales.

I've been pestering neobrain about this for years now to no avail. So I doubt it will be fixed anytime soon. Plus the devs keep talking about eliminating or at least deprecating the d3d9 backend quite seriously.

[neobrain]

Quote:Ever since neobrain broke it using no SSAA or 4x SSAA results in the exact same filter being used, the only difference is the IR.

Yo dude, the way you phrased that sentence implies me doing stuff has something to do with no-SSAA and 4xSSAA modes using the same filter (which is not the case).

That said, let me add that whoever coded the SSAA support in the first place totally screwed up.

[NaturalViolence]

Probably. But for whatever reason it was working before you fiddled with it. You suggested that it was a fluke or a hackish method but it did work regardless of the how or why. And as a user that's all I care about. You said that the filter needs to be remade for the new code (which it does) but you haven't done that yet so as far as I'm concerned you did break it. I have no idea what I'm doing so every time I tried to fiddle with it it either gave me a black screen or turned everything into a blurry mess. Maybe one of these days I'll try again and actually do some research this time instead of going in blind. But if you're going to deprecate the d3d9 backend for some reason like you recently suggested then I guess I should just give up my dreams of beautiful SSAA altogether. Tino certainly isn't going to come back and fix it after he dropped off the face of the planet. He's the one that originally wrote the SSAA code and he hasn't responded to my email. Gah. I'm too heavily invested in this stuff but I can't help it. I love AA!