Sager has a bunch of laptops with the 970M and 980M
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12-24-2014, 02:11 PM
I'm honestly not sure why there's even a discussion about laptops being far behind desktops, I thought that was common knowledge.
I mean, take the most beastly desktop rig, overclocked as high as you can go without ruining your shit....it's going to need some extreme cooling or it won't last very long. That same exact setup inside a laptop case would probably cause the damn thing to melt. Hence why laptop specific hardware was created, and why laptop specific hardware has a much lower ceiling than desktop hardware. Until self cooling hardware is invented(or extremely advanced hardware that uses very little power), laptops will always be significantly behind it's superior desktop counterpart. Don't tell me that's not possible either, my first rig had a 333 MHz processor and that wasn't even 20 years ago. Anything is possible 
12-24-2014, 03:07 PM
 shreduhsoreus Wrote:I'm honestly not sure why there's even a discussion about laptops being far behind desktops, I thought that was common knowledge. No one is saying that they aren't. The only thing that he disagrees with me on is exactly how far behind. I find this to be an interesting thought experiment. Something that is difficult to define and calculate. I suspect he feels the same way. shreduhsoreus Wrote:Until self cooling hardware is invented Define what you mean by "self cooling". As far as I know thermal energy can only be transferred via molecular/atomic interactions or radiation. All microprocessors release thermal energy into their environment whether you stick a cooler on them or not (at least up until they fail). So if that's your definition then microprocessors already are and have always been "self cooling". If you're instead implying some system whereby adding a heatsink and fan does not substantially improve temperatures in a high power chip that would violate pretty much the entire concept of heat and all of the basic principles of thermodynamics. It would make more sense to say "better cooling" here than "self cooling" as a mechanism to more efficiently transfer heat with a small, cheap, and quiet device might be possible. shreduhsoreus Wrote:(or extremely advanced hardware that uses very little power), Define "extremely advanced" and "little". Depending on your definitions you could say that we're already there. But if what you're trying to propose instead is hardware where increasing power consumption doesn't yield additional performance. Well then no that's not possible with conventional designs that use electricity. There would be only two options to change that, use something other than electricity to carry the information (light would be the only real viable alternative) or use superconductors to carry the electricity. Both of those options impose some pretty massive engineering constraints that are unlikely to be overcome anywhere in the near future. shreduhsoreus Wrote:Don't tell me that's not possible either, my first rig had a 333 MHz processor and that wasn't even 20 years ago. Anything is possible Well I'm still trying to figure what exactly you're proposing which is why I asked for some additional details above. Until I have that I can't really construct any kind of meaningful comment or critique of your ideas. But I can already tell you that whatever you're proposing will not be comparable to a clock rate increase in any way. Increasing clock rates have consistently occurred over the last few decades in a semi-predictable way that was already well understood as early as the 1960s. It is expected behavior and it continues to occur in a semi-predictable way to this day. Therefore saying anything is possible just because clock rates have gone up is not valid logic. "X is possible therefore anything is possible" is never valid logic no matter what statement you use for X. Good to see some new blood around here.
"Normally if given a choice between doing something and nothing, I’d choose to do nothing. But I would do something if it helps someone else do nothing. I’d work all night if it meant nothing got done."
-Ron Swanson "I shall be a good politician, even if it kills me. Or if it kills anyone else for that matter. " -Mark Antony 12-24-2014, 04:55 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-24-2014, 06:15 PM by shreduhsoreus.)
Oy vey, use your imagination! We are all totally ignorant as to what future technology has in store. I for one, am thrilled for the future.
100 years ago, if someone were to propose an idea that resembled technology that we have today, they would most likely be thought of as insane. Given advances in technology, I'm just saying that there is still much to be invented and discovered. I saw a Bluetooth keyboard the other day that was a device that projected the keyboard on a surface, there was no ACTUAL keyboard. A few decades ago, something like that would blow people's minds(not that I still don't think that's amazing haha). But to clarify, I said "far behind", which was meant to imply more than a year or two. Guess I could have been a little more direct My reference to my old computer was a direct example of how much technology has advanced. Computer scientists have developed ways to make computers more powerful, in a smaller package, while consuming less electrical power. There is much left to be discovered and invented. The only limits are ones that you perceive. Edit: Please don't comment about something being impossible or improbable, that would be a sign that you've entirely missed the point. The point being that until some sort of technology is invented that allows laptops to compete spec for spec with desktops, laptops will always be significantly behind. Also, I don't know how far back the conversation goes, but from what I read it looked like an argument, which is where my first sentence in the last post came from.
Craptop specs: W7 Pro x64 | Arctic Silver 5 woo! | i7 4700MQ @ ~3.5GHz | GT 740M 2GB @ 1183/1080MHz | 12GB DDR3 1600Mhz | 1366x768 screen lololol
"Speak boldly and with intellect. Never hush your voice for someone's comfort. Speak your mind, make people uncomfortable." 12-25-2014, 01:43 AM
 (12-24-2014, 03:07 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote:shreduhsoreus Wrote:Until self cooling hardware is invented My idea of "self-cooling" hardware would be a cooling system small and efficient enough to be built into the hardware itself, thus not requiring any of the standard bulky heatsinks and fans. For (a very hypothetical) example, imagine the chip being covered in some kind of heat superconductor, which would be connected to some heatsink utilizing a kind of metamaterial (perhaps also needing an external power supply to function) which would conduct away the heat through a compact, pipe-like system. All that would be required then would be a standard heat receptacle in every PC (desktop or otherwise), to which the heat would be "piped", and then, say, used to power an ultra-compact thermal generator (which would greatly increase the energy efficiency of PCs), or removed from the PC in some other way. I'm not saying everything presented here would necessarily be feasible, but there's nothing to make it impossible either. Although now that I re-read your last sentence, I kinda agree with it. (12-24-2014, 03:07 PM)NaturalViolence Wrote: Well then no that's not possible with conventional designs that use electricity. There would be only two options to change that, use something other than electricity to carry the information (light would be the only real viable alternative) or use superconductors to carry the electricity. Both of those options impose some pretty massive engineering constraints that are unlikely to be overcome anywhere in the near future. But not impossible. As far as I can tell, that's shreduhsoreus's point.
>mfw I have no face
01-01-2015, 03:10 PM
Just a dude passing through looking for suggestions and advice...
Quote:I'm trying to improve ventilation and resolve some hardware issues so I'm looking for suggestions. 01-01-2015, 11:14 PM
 (01-01-2015, 03:10 PM)Xtreme2damax Wrote: *GPU stuff*Instead of trying to fiddle with your GPUs, I'd suggest to sell them and grab yourself a GTX 970. It's more efficient, faster, cooler and you don't have to deal with any SLI incompatibilities. Quote:- Just a question I've been curious about. Can the motherboard rest directly on the standoffs...Yes that's how it's supposed to be. Any modern motherboard (including yours) don't need to have washers and you shouldn't use them as you'll increase the chance of getting your motherboard to short out. Quote:- No matter how many times I've reseated the heatsink with thermal paste my cpu struggles to go below 40C idle. The lowest I'll see is around 42C or 43C but lately has been hanging closer to 50C idle. Stress testing results in cpu temps climbing above 70C to around 80C. I've been looking to replace the heatsink with something like a Cooler Master V8 GTS since I went through two cheap'ish heatsinks that yielded temps that didn't vary by much. There's really no reason to be running this warm since the inside of my place is chilly so the ambient temps are low enough I should be seeing closer to 30C. It doesn't matter whether I run stock clock or overclock temps are pretty much the same regardless.You should update your profile as iirc you had your i7 back up and running... not sure which one it was exactly. What cooler do you have? Quote:- How to cable management? Can I use shrink tubing for cables? Some people seem to have amazingly tidy cases without cables taking up any room. I tried to tidy up my cables but the results weren't satisfactory. I have cables all over from the psu to the cpu, mobo, gpu's, fan wires and sata cables plus power cables for the BDR drive and hdd's.What does your case look right now? It's not too hard to get a relatively clean looking case if you have long enough cables. 01-02-2015, 02:46 AM
Quote:Instead of trying to fiddle with your GPUs, I'd suggest to sell them and grab yourself a GTX 970. I want to, man do I want to. The GTX 970 makes me drool for the performance I could get out of them, being able to run pretty much all my games on ultra with excellent fps including Skyrim with graphical and enb mods. It's too bad that friggin gpu's are expensive as hell and the msrp never goes down ever and I don't trust buying anything other than new hardware. I'm not sure I'd get very much out of the 460's if I sold them if I could even find a buyer. I do plan on putting some cash aside to eventually purchase a GTX 970 sometime next year. Btw sli compatibilities aren't the issue but the fact one or both my gpu's may be defective or failing or have some kind of other underlying issue. Even with a single gpu performance isn't so good with some games that should be seeing better performance with my hardware. Quote:You should update your profile as iirc you had your i7 back up and running... not sure which one it was exactly. It doesn't matter the cooler I've always got subpar temps. So far I've tried two cooler and my current cooler is the Thermaltake Frio, the fan control knob/circuit is broken so the fan control is an open circuit. I'm not sure if that has any effect on fan speed and consequently temps. This was my previous cooler back when I originally assembled this system. I forgot to update my profile so I'll go ahead and do that later. Quote:Yes that's how it's supposed to be. Any modern motherboard (including yours) don't need to have washers and you shouldn't use them as you'll increase the chance of getting your motherboard to short out. I meant plastic or rubber washers not anything metallic that would short the board out. It seems like resting directly on the standoffs might case damage if the system was moved around or jarred or so I mistakenly thought it seems. I've had two of these boards fail on me so far and I doubt this one will last either but that may just be the crappy manufacturing and quality control where practically everyone had problems with this board at some point. Quote:What does your case look right now? It's not too hard to get a relatively clean looking case if you have long enough cables. It's not too bad but it's still kind of messy and could be improved. There are a couple case parts - a gpu holder and vga fan duct, one of which can be used for cable management and both for better ventilation. If I could figure out how to properly install them but it seems I have trouble fitting them in. My case is the Cooler Master HAF X 942. 01-02-2015, 02:56 AM
If the GTX 970 is too expensive then why not get the R9-290? It's great for Skyrim (Can run it at 4k at 60FPS and has enough ram for texture mods) and is only a few fps away from it when both are at stock.
01-02-2015, 03:17 AM
^ I like Nvidia better. The only time I had AMD/ATI hardware was when I got a laptop and in old prebuilt systems from way back. From what I've read Nvidia hardware and drivers are better with less issues. AMD also isn't a good choice for Dolphin since buffer_storage doesn't work as well with AMD as it does Nvidia. Is that AMD gpu equivalent to the 970, how much would I save over purchasing an equivalent Nvidia gpu? AMD may be cheaper but not by much and Nvidia/Intel are better for my needs. Keep in mind I don't only want to run Skyrim but other games and applications some of which perform better with Nvidia than AMD.
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