[GC] AR Codes for 16:9, 21:9 & 60Hz

[MayImilae]

As you must not have noticed, Kolano has been adding talk page notes behind your recent edits, asking what problems with the widescreen hack occur in these games. As per the conventions, widescreen codes are only to be on the page when the widescreen hack has some sort of visual anomaly with the game. The wiki is not a cheats database; it's primary purpose is as a database of problems in Dolphin and their solutions, after all! If the widescreen hack can handle it there is no need for a widescreen code.

Please take the time to look through them and note the issues you saw in these games. If you don't have the games and haven't tried the codes, let us know too.

[Devina]

I've NEVER seen that in the conventions. Sometimes, it honestly seems you just make up "conventions" on the spot.

Dolphin's widescreen hack is unreliable. I've never had a single GameCube game work properly with it. There's almost always SOME culling issue, reflection issue, lighting issue, etc, during some level or cutscene or whatever.

Direct widescreen codes are always more stable, plus they act as a base for which other uses can improve on. For example, sometimes, players will make HUD codes, FMV fixes - stuff which the Dolphin Widescreen Hack can't do. Tales of Symphonia is an example of this. As such, it's more "future proof". I don't mind the talk page notes.

I literally don't have time to check 200 games and play them all from start to finish JUST to see if there's a difference between Dolphin Widescreen Hack and the widescreen code (and to expect someone to is asinine), and there may be very specific conditions to trigger a defect with the Dolphin Widescreen Hack which a stable code would fix.

In addition, some players prefer a "one and done" approach and don't want to constantly have to open Dolphin's graphic menu enable/disable the built-in code (which takes 4 clicks), and would prefer a code. Especially since a lot of users flip-flop between GameCube and Wii games.

Widescreen codes also have the benefit of being able to be converted into an AR code and played on a real GameCube or Wii, because there's a small group of users who prefer doing that.

I believe Dolphin Wiki should list ALL widescreen codes, especially for the sake of being "better safe than sorry".

[MayImilae]

Devina Wrote:I've NEVER seen that in the conventions. Sometimes, it honestly seems you just make up "conventions" on the spot.

Did you ever read this?

https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=Project:Wiki_Conventions

Project:Wiki Conventions Wrote:This is a generalized outline of how things are done here on the Dolphin Emulator Wiki. These are all "common law" concepts; no one has ever set in stone how these things work, they are simply what has grown out of the wiki over its many years of existence. And they will continue to evolve as the wiki grows, and this page will be updated periodically to reflect the changes that have occurred. These conventions are not "rules" in any sense of the word, but guidelines, instructions, and help for those new to the wiki.

They are not made up on the spot, but they are not spelled out in the conventions document either, at least not clearly yet. It says "conventions" and not "rules" for a reason! We don't decide ahead of time - as problems come up and wiki users and the admins respond to them, everyone talks about things and the consensus is formed. Through many repeated precedents over a long period of time, conventions are formed, and the wiki conventions article outlines ones that are so consistent and so meaningful toward our goals that they have been codified for new editors as a reference. Convention are added to the document after the fact, not before, because that is how a common law system works!

Devina Wrote:I believe Dolphin Wiki should list ALL widescreen codes, especially for the sake of being "better safe than sorry".

That is the exact opposite of the direction the wiki has been going for the past six years. :/ When me, kolano, and jhonn first started working on the wiki in 2010, it was a MESS. The majority of the data on it was completely false or unnecessary. Why? Because "better safe than sorry" was how it was run! Anyone could add anything for any reason, and it just became a disaster, as people filled in problems long fixed because they were using old builds, or wrote in configuration recommendations that had bad effects but because they liked them, or added action reply codes that completely didn't work and weren't needed. Over time and responding to these issues, we've developed standards to deal with them and approach them.

One of those standards is that things should be tried *before* added to the wiki. If you add something without reproducing it, it could be false or broken, and you'd never know! Our job is to remove the false/broken, and we can't do that if the editors themselves don't know if it is real or not, it makes it MUCH harder on us to find out. So yes, that means you should test every action replay code before you place them on the wiki. Its not our job to have a large selection of codes. You are just ripping them from a games database, right? Why not just leave the codes on the games database that is designed for this purpose? Wikis are *terrible* at such things!

Anyway, that isn't much of a conclusion, but um, yea, please think about this. I know you may disagree, but we (including you) have already talked about it, and the consensus was very clear.

[Devina]

(03-05-2016, 11:40 PM)MaJoR Wrote: They are not made up on the spot, but they are not spelled out in the conventions document either, at least not clearly yet. It says "conventions" and not "rules" for a reason! We don't decide ahead of time - as problems come up and wiki users and the admins respond to them, everyone talks about things and the consensus is formed.

Well, we need to form a consensus on this.

And I WOULD expect something as important and specific as "Widescreen codes are only allowed if Dolphin's Widescreen Hack has issues" to be listed and made clear.

(03-05-2016, 11:40 PM)MaJoR Wrote: I know you may disagree, but we (including you) have already talked about it, and the consensus was very clear.

I disagree in regards to "Widescreen codes are only allowed if Dolphin's Widescreen Hack has issues", and I gave reasons above why they should be included regardless.

We need other's opinions on this. I already added like 20-25 codes, but I'm not going to edit the wiki any further yet until we all come to a clear conclusion on this.

[masterotaku]

In my opinion there are two good reasons to include widescreen codes in the wiki for games that also work with the widescreen hack:

1- No need to check or uncheck the widescreen hack checkbox for different games.
2- The widescreen hack overrides the accurate aspect ratio correction and fills the entire screen.

[jonaand2]

anyone make 16:9 for X-Men Legends 1, or teach how do for myself

[JosJuice]

(03-06-2016, 01:42 AM)masterotaku Wrote: 2- The widescreen hack overrides the accurate aspect ratio correction and fills the entire screen.

Does it fill the screen only by expanding the visible area, or is it actually stretching the image incorrectly?

[delroth]

Quote:Well, we need to form a consensus on this.

The consensus has been formed by the wiki maintainers. Drop it or I'll make you drop it the hard way (too bad for people that care about widescreen AR codes -- frankly I'd rather have happy wiki maintainers that don't complain to me about you guys causing drama).

[Devina]

(03-06-2016, 02:10 AM)delroth Wrote: The consensus has been formed by the wiki maintainers. Drop it or I'll make you drop it the hard way (too bad for people that care about widescreen AR codes -- frankly I'd rather have happy wiki maintainers that don't complain to me about you guys causing drama).

No, a consensus on this issue HASN'T been formed yet. MaJoR is just ONE wiki admin (out of what, three?). Everyone needs to discuss this.

Secondly, if (hypothetically) 100 editors want something, why should a mere THREE admins get the final decision? In my eyes, that's an abusive, power-control totalitarian corrupt system.

[MayImilae]

Devina Wrote:Well, we need to form a consensus on this.

Devina Wrote:No, a consensus on this issue HASN'T been formed yet. MaJoR is just ONE wiki admin (out of what, three?). Everyone needs to discuss this.

We did, remember? All three wiki admins chimed in, and you weighed in as well. https://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=Talk:The_Legend_of_Zelda:_Twilight_Princess_(GC)

Just so we are clear... On wikipedia, the entire internet can edit anything at any time, but the internet cannot storm in and force the wiki to obey whatever its whims are. That is because wikipedia only allows those who are involved in wikipedia to have a say in the decisions at hand. Only "On-wiki" discussions count in the final consensus, and suddenly inviting a swarm of new-to-wikipedia users immediately throws up red signs of canvasing - the inviting of outsiders into a discussion with the goal of changing the outcome. We have not established any convention on it specifically, but our definition and structure for consensus follows wikipedia in style.

Devina Wrote:And I WOULD expect something as important and specific as "Widescreen codes are only allowed if Dolphin's Widescreen Hack has issues" to be listed and made clear.

It is, actually.

Wiki Conventions Wrote:The enhancements area is generally absent of most game pages, but may be used to capture:

• Issues related to Dolphin's Enhancement options
• Links to HD texture packs
• Gecko/AR codes that overcome emulation issues, make titles run at higher frame rates or allow using wider Aspect Ratios
  

If the game article doesn't have that section yet, feel free to create it, right after Problems section. Please note that any AR/Gecko code that doesn't fit in any of those categories are not allowed and should not be included in this wiki.

(emphasis mine) As Kolano and Jhonn have told you, a widescreen code that does not fix an emulation problem is not included within this. These limitations were put in specifically because of past abuses of the enhancements area.